Gold Purchases and Credit Card Cash Transaction Fees

[JoeBlack]

Anyone know which bullion dealers do not process purchases as cash transactions? My first sovereign purchase was in January and I used Tesco credit card to purchase from the Royal Mint and was charged a £35 fee plus daily interest on top, very expensive. Since then I have been purchasing with my debit card. I understand you do not get these cash transaction fees when buying from Atkinsons anyone know which other dealer are safe to purchase with credit cards without these cash fees or which credit cards do not charge these fees? I was looking to purchase some items from Hatton Gardens but delayed as I struggled to get an answer from them on their web chat.

[DTL1982]

It may be specific to the credit card you used more so than the dealer. I have bought several times from the Royal Mint and was not charged as a cash transaction with Chase credit cards.  

[JoeBlack]

8 minutes ago, DTL1982 said:

It may be specific to the credit card you used more so than the dealer. I have bought several times from the Royal Mint and was not charged as a cash transaction with Chase credit cards.  

Thank you for your reply. I forgot to say I am in the UK, maybe rules are different in the US?

[DTL1982]

Just now, JoeBlack said:

Thank you for your reply. I forgot to say I am in the UK, maybe rules are different in the US?

It’s possible and I’m far from an expert. However I always thought transaction fees were more bank policy rather than govt policy. Some banks set high fees for certain transactions whilst others don’t. I know loads of others on here also order from the RM within the UK so hopefully they will chime in. 😁

[JamesH]

I bought from RM recently on a credit card (Nationwide) and am based in the UK. No additional transaction fee levied

[JoeBlack]

41 minutes ago, JamesH said:

I bought from RM recently on a credit card (Nationwide) and am based in the UK. No additional transaction fee levied

I am thinking its to do with what product code is allocated to the transaction. I purchased bullion coins which may have a different transaction code from investment gold or proofs when buying form Royal Mint. It does clearly say in the Tesco Card terms that a cash withdrawal incurs the said charges. But other members on hear buy happily from Atkinsons with the Tesco card to collect points.

[bluffer]

On 19/07/2023 at 16:49, JoeBlack said:

I am thinking its to do with what product code is allocated to the transaction. I purchased bullion coins which may have a different transaction code from investment gold or proofs when buying form Royal Mint. It does clearly say in the Tesco Card terms that a cash withdrawal incurs the said charges. But other members on hear buy happily from Atkinsons with the Tesco card to collect points.

This.

 

I have a Tesco card like the OP.  Confusingly RM is split, so buying something out the shop or booking the tour isnt classed as cash.  neither is buying circulating coins and sets.  but bullion is.

 

BPP, Bleyer, Britannia Coin Company arent charged as cash either by Tesco and no fees.  I think Silver Trader is the same but its over a year ago so not 100%

[kiskelo]

I was charged using Halifax CC through RM website, contacted them and they waved the charge. Using debit card now.

I think it's in the new terms and conditions of the CC company. Who on earth ever reads them?

[Darr3nG]

I got hit one time trying to buy bullion coins from the Royal Mint, using a HSBC Mastercard. RM cancelled the order, but HSBC/MC didn't refund the "cash advance" charge!  

[Goldfever20]

I got hit with cash advance fees by my CC provider for using PayPal F&F, I bought a couple of sovereigns on TSF. I used the CC PP FF many times before and it was fine, all of the sudden they changed the T&C and there you go... expensive lesson.

[JoeBlack]

I haven't used my Tesco credit card to buy gold since the charges in January but after starting this post I ordered a coin from Hatton Gardens I clicked the wrong card as I was logged into Google and my cards are stored in there and clicked on my Tesco CC by accident, coin has been dispatched but payment on the card is still showing as pending, no charges listed as yet. I will update when payment clears.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

Infuriating, isn't it? Many CC companies treat PM transactions as being money. The couriers, including Royal Mail, treat silver and gold as being money for insurance purposes. Yet HMRC still has the nerve to charge us 20% VAT on money if it's silver. The whole thing is an illegal racket that needs shut down ASAP. Either it's money and no VAT is due or it's a product and no charges or insurance premiums are due from CCs and mail couriers. We have the worst of both worlds as UK citizens

[JoeBlack]

58 minutes ago, Goldfever20 said:

I got hit with cash advance fees by my CC provider for using PayPal F&F, I bought a couple of sovereigns on TSF. I used the CC PP FF many times before and it was fine, all of the sudden they changed the T&C and there you go... expensive lesson.

I would have thought if you are loading Paypal with cash money from a credit card to send to a friend would be a cash transaction as you are sending cash. I would have also thought Paypal would have charged you a loading fee as well.

I miss the days when eBay used Paypal, I know 3 people who received nudge letters from HMRC this year.

[SidS]

I still pay sellers via PayPal when using eBay. I stopped selling on there myself when you had to tie a bank account on and they phased PayPal out.

[JoeBlack]

2 minutes ago, SidS said:

I still pay sellers via PayPal when using eBay. I stopped selling on there myself when you had to tie a bank account on and they phased PayPal out.

My Paypal balance is empty now, so pay with card on eBay but thinking about it I guess using Paypal linked to a card give double protection if the need be. I stopped also when you had to link in your bank but started recently just to clear out some old stuff, it may not be worth the grief if I will get a nudge letter too. Apparently they have come down hard on Youtubers this your as well, its all linked into that connect software now.

[SidS]

Yeah my Paypal balance is empty as well, I use the attached credit card.

[bluffer]

2 hours ago, JoeBlack said:

I haven't used my Tesco credit card to buy gold since the charges in January but after starting this post I ordered a coin from Hatton Gardens I clicked the wrong card as I was logged into Google and my cards are stored in there and clicked on my Tesco CC by accident, coin has been dispatched but payment on the card is still showing as pending, no charges listed as yet. I will update when payment clears.

we should start a spreadsheet 🤣 and make it a sticky.

 

  @ChrisSilver  worth a sticky?

[Coverte]

2 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Infuriating, isn't it? Many CC companies treat PM transactions as being money. The couriers, including Royal Mail, treat silver and gold as being money for insurance purposes. Yet HMRC still has the nerve to charge us 20% VAT on money if it's silver. The whole thing is an illegal racket that needs shut down ASAP. Either it's money and no VAT is due or it's a product and no charges or insurance premiums are due from CCs and mail couriers. We have the worst of both worlds as UK citizens

That's just wrong, especially with RM prices being as inflated as they are; it prompted me to check a statement for a couple of months ago, luckily no charge, plus I got the usual % cashback.

[Bratnia]

6 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Infuriating, isn't it? Many CC companies treat PM transactions as being money. The couriers, including Royal Mail, treat silver and gold as being money for insurance purposes. Yet HMRC still has the nerve to charge us 20% VAT on money if it's silver. The whole thing is an illegal racket that needs shut down ASAP. Either it's money and no VAT is due or it's a product and no charges or insurance premiums are due from CCs and mail couriers. We have the worst of both worlds as UK citizens

I note that Bullionvault where you can buy/store physical silver without incurring VAT, unless you take physical delivery in the UK, has higher costs for vaulting silver compared to gold. Fair I guess given the extra bulk. For gold storage their fees can be very competitive. Their cost calculator is here : https://www.bullionvault.co.uk/cost-calculator.do Buy, store, sell GBP 1M of gold for 10 years and a 1.4% total cost, 0.14%/year. For the same period/value of silver its 0.5%/year. For a private syndicate/fund/pool that's a potential considerable saving compared to incurring 20% VAT and perhaps 10% spreads.

[JoeBlack]

The Tesco Credit Card transaction for bullion sovereigns with Hatton Gardens has cleared and to my surprise there is Zero additional payment charges.