My predecimal silver collection goal

[arphethean]

I thought I'd share my latest collection goal with you, and document my journey here, updating the thread when new coins join it. 

I decided to start exploring the world of numismatic predecimal coins and of course like many things it is turning out to be quite a vast area with so much to learn.

The collection will consist of one shilling, florin, halfcrown and crown in each reverse design and each portrait going back to Queen Anne eventually, for now just to George I. Sadly this goal will never be achieved as a William IV crown was only produced in small numbers of proofs and will never be in my affordability range, so I will have to content myself with its absence, or maybe find a replica to hold its place. 

The coins must all be in a high grade so as to show off the engraver's handiwork. What is less important to me is finding coins which have not been cleaned, have edge dings or field scratches. These are fine provided they are accounted for in the price paid. Such defects can easily half the going price at a given grade and that is a good compromise to make in my eyes. 

So, first up, the shillings. 

 

George I, 1714-1727.

First bust. South Sea Company shilling

<need second bust>

 

George II, 1727-1760

<need young head>

Old head

 

George III, 1760-1820

<need old coinage portrait>

New Coinage

 

George IV, 1820-1830

First bust, first reverse design

 

First bust, second reverse

 

Second bust, third reverse. Hard to believe it's the same bloke

 

William IV, 1830-1837

 

Victoria, 1837-1901

<need young head, 1st type>

Young head, second type

 

Third type

 

Fourth type

 

Jubilee Head, a return to the George IV 

 

Old, or veiled head

 

Edward VII, 1901-1910

 

George V, 1910-1936

From here on I've got lazy and just picked out ones from scrap bundles rather than sought out UNC coins. 

<need first head>

Second head

 

George VI, 1936-1952

English reverse

 

Scottish reverse

 

Elizabeth II, 1952-2022

Gillick Head

 

What do you think of the coins? Tell me your favourites from this selection.

Take a guess which was the most expensive! 

Edited November 6, 2022 by arphethean

[SidS]

Some good stuff there! A great little collection you've got started. I look forward to seeing more. Always good to see more people into the historical side!

It won't just be the William IV crown which will outfox you, I bet you have great difficulty in getting hold of George I crown and half crowns too! They're very scarce.

[arphethean]

The florins. 

These were a bit of an afterthought as there is less variety in the designs, but I decided to get them when I saw the gothic florin, so if I'm getting one I might as well get em all. So a lot of gaps in this series at this stage. 

The first circulation florin, the Victoria "Godless" gothic florin from 1849

 

Edward VII 

 

George VI

Edited November 6, 2022 by arphethean

[arphethean]

The halfcrowns

 

George III

 

George IV

 

Victoria Jubilee Head (I've had this since long before i had this collection ambition and although it doesn't make the grade I will keep it as it has bags of Victorian characters)

 

Edward VII proof

 

George V

 

George V debased silver. Must substitute this one for the second head

 

Elizabeth II

Edited November 6, 2022 by arphethean

[arphethean]

The double florin, colloquially known as the barmaid's ruin. Owing to having a similar size to a crown this would occasionally be mistaken for one when placed heads up.

The denomination hence only lasted 4 years. 

 

 

[SidS]

25 minutes ago, arphethean said:

Take a guess which was the most expensive! 

William IV.

Whilst the George IV laureate head coins are less common than the 1834, that 1834 is a very decent grade specimen. So I'd put my money on that one.

I suspect the 1889 and 1897 shillings would have been more expensive too. Old head Vicky's in top grades are not cheap. 

[arphethean]

And finally the crown.

I have a vast amount of work to do in this size. The money involved gets serious here so this part will take me several years to build up I'm sure.

Victoria Young head

 

Jubilee Head

 

Old head

 

George V "rocking horse"

From here on these are not select picks, just ones I've picked up in bundles to hold the space until I find nicer examples. 

 

George VI

 

Queen Elizabeth II.

I will not be getting every commemorative crown, just my favourite reverse from each portrait. 

Churchill

 

Jubilee

 

Millennium

 

 

[arphethean]

And finally an honourable mention to a coin that will not grace this collection on a permanent basis... the 1679 Charles II halfcrown. 

 

When I acquired this coin I planned initially to extend the collection back to Charles II but soon realised this would be too challenging and expensive so reined in the ambition and will let this coin go. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by arphethean

[SidS]

2 minutes ago, arphethean said:

And finally an honourable mention to a coin that will not grace this collection on a permanent basis... the 1679 James II halfcrown.

That's Charles II - very nice coins too. Very well designed and balanced coins overall are the Charles II issues - which in turn clearly draw inspiration from the coinages of Louis XIV, at whose court Charles resided whilst he was in exile in the 1650s.

The James II ones state IACOBVS.

[arphethean]

13 minutes ago, SidS said:

William IV.

Whilst the George IV laureate head coins are less common than the 1834, that 1834 is a very decent grade specimen. So I'd put my money on that one.

I suspect the 1889 and 1897 shillings would have been more expensive too. Old head Vicky's in top grades are not cheap. 

Actually the 1723 George I shilling was the most expensive by quite a margin. In hindsight I probably overpaid considerably on that one and got a good price on the 1834. The 1834 was second most, and the 1853 and 1825s tie third place.

[SidS]

Just now, arphethean said:

Actually the 1723 George I shilling was the most expensive by quite a margin. In hindsight I probably overpaid considerably on that one and got a good price on the 1834. The 1834 was second most, and the 1853 and 1825s tie third place.

That sounds about right. The 1723s aren't actually rare or that difficult to source (compared to other George I shillings).

Sounds like you can cost average anyway if you got a good deal on the 1834. The George IV, William IV and Vicky coins should hold their value quite well. I'd expect the 1889 and 1897 to steadily appreciate in value over the long term, as will the higher grade Vicky young heads - like your 1853.

[Bruce06]

Like the Godless n Standing Britannia Florin so much, which to me are one of the best designs of predecimal coins...your Victoria shilling are nice too ...thanks for sharing, cheers.

[arphethean]

30 minutes ago, Bruce06 said:

Like the Godless n Standing Britannia Florin so much, which to me are one of the best designs of predecimal coins...your Victoria shilling are nice too ...thanks for sharing, cheers.

Yes, the standing florin is a superb design. 

[arphethean]

1 hour ago, SidS said:

Some good stuff there! A great little collection you've got started. I look forward to seeing more. Always good to see more people into the historical side!

It won't just be the William IV crown which will outfox you, I bet you have great difficulty in getting hold of George I crown and half crowns too! They're very scarce.

Indeed, i will probably have to save up over a few months and search for a while for the G I ones.

[Midasfrog]

I have a couple of William III shillings 1695 found with the metal detector its not until you hold this coinage in hand that you find the detail to be be very fine.

Your collection is coming along very well 👍

[arphethean]

3 hours ago, SidS said:

That's Charles II - very nice coins too. Very well designed and balanced coins overall are the Charles II issues - which in turn clearly draw inspiration from the coinages of Louis XIV, at whose court Charles resided whilst he was in exile in the 1650s.

The James II ones state IACOBVS.

Thank you, corrected

[flyingveepixie]

Superb collection.  I had a 1961 Scottish shilling too but lost it somehow, likewise I also had a William IV shilling although I can't remember the date.  Lost that one too.  Must've misplaced them somehow along with a couple of other nice little examples I had, probably in one of my many house moves..

[Stuntman]

Very nice.  I was going to say the 1723 shilling was a nice example and probably your most expensive, and the 1834 shilling is also a nice example.

I have a similar collection to yours - I have most of different types of shillings going back to Charles II, certainly one of each monarch and I think all the different obverses and reverses once you get to George III onwards, plus one of almost every type of florin and halfcrown from 1849 and 1816 respectively.  

I've avoided the crowns though!

Mine are in a selection of grades and some of them are rare dates, but none of them is high grade and rare date!

Keep enjoying finding your next ones.  Personally I would keep your 1679 halfcrown and consider finding just one coin (either shilling or half crown) from James II, William & Mary, William III and Anne - so that you have a collection of monarchs back to the Restoration.

[Stuntman]

I saw a fairly reasonable and quite well priced second bust 1723 shilling for sale recently -about £65 from memory, the seller didn't seem to have realised that it was a second bust coin.  

[JTerry3]

1 hour ago, Stuntman said:

Personally I would keep your 1679 halfcrown and consider finding just one coin (either shilling or half crown) from James II, William & Mary, William III and Anne - so that you have a collection of monarchs back to the Restoration.

I would agree with this. I know what OP means about cost being prohibitive but just focusing on high grade shillings going back to Restoration should be within your reach & there are some lovely designs.

Following William III 1697 shilling (3rd bust) is probably my favourite early milled silver that I currently own (cost me £133 if you were wondering).

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by JTerry3

[JTerry3]

Having said that, if you were willing to part with that Charles II half-crown, I'd be happy to take it off your hands one day. 😄

[SidS]

23 minutes ago, JTerry3 said:

 

 

That's a sweet coin!

[Stuntman]

I'd pay £133 for that one all day long!