1kg Bairds vs. Metalor, Valcambi or Credit Suisse with a certificate

[Silverlocks]

I see a couple of UK outfits - notably Bairds and another outfit called Betts which I'd never heard of before selling 500g, 1kg, 100oz and similar size cast silver bars at a significantly smaller premium than the rates fetched by players like Metalor or Valcambi through a dealer.  The catch (?) seems to be that these bars don't come with a certificate of authenticity but just a maker's mark.

This seems like a too-good-to-be-true scenario - does this affect the resale value, am I looking at some sort of apples-to-oranges comparison that I've missed or is there some other reason for the price difference?

Example - https://www.bairdmint.com/products/1kg-silver-cast-bar-jbr vs. 1kg metalor bars from your favourite dealer.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Silverlocks

[modofantasma]

If I were buying silver bars new I'd go to Baird's. Seem to be consistently cheaper than other brands over the past year or two even with the Vat. Well recognised brand I am surprised they aren't more common on here.

I don't personally care about coa or fancy packaging on cast bullion bars though some buyers might.

[Petra]

Baird bars come in sealed wrapper, what more is needed? Well recognised company.

[James32]

As @Petra says, Baird come sealed and do have a coa attached. 

That being said, the coa's from metalor/valacambi etc are in my humble opinion a load of complete trash/nonsense. Anyone ( except me) with half decent computer skills could theoretically print one in 10 mins!

Buy all means do stick to well known brands until you get a feel for things,but don't get caught up in a does/dose not have a COA. 

A block of silver is a block of silver and will always be worth what the price on the day dictates. 

 

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Silverlocks said:

I see a couple of UK outfits - notably Bairds and another outfit called Betts which I'd never heard of before selling 500g, 1kg, 100oz and similar size cast silver bars at a significantly smaller premium than the rates fetched by players like Metalor or Valcambi through a dealer.  The catch (?) seems to be that these bars don't come with a certificate of authenticity but just a maker's mark.

This seems like a too-good-to-be-true scenario - does this affect the resale value, am I looking at some sort of apples-to-oranges comparison that I've missed or is there some other reason for the price difference?

Example - https://www.bairdmint.com/products/1kg-silver-cast-bar-jbr vs. 1kg metalor bars from your favourite dealer.

 

To save everyone having to look at the various prices, and working the respective premiums out for themselves, why not state them in your post, rather than just say "significant"?

What are you interested in buying and owning? A silver bar or a certificate piece of paper?

How much extra does the piece of paper cost?

Is it really worth that much?

😎

[Silverlocks]

21 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

To save everyone having to look at the various prices, and working the respective premiums out for themselves, why not state them in your post, rather than just say "significant"?

I didn't really want to go calling out a specific vendor but something around £700 or so including VAT is more common on dealer websites (although this is not universal) where this was more like £660.  I was really trying to find out if there was some reason for this that I was missing rather than start a bunfight about dealer's margins.

 

Quote

How much extra does the piece of paper cost?

Is it really worth that much?

Well, that was the £64,000 question.  Is the difference in price just happenstance or is there some factor that I wasn't aware of at play?

Edited August 31, 2022 by Silverlocks

[Petra]

May be missing the mark here, however i would expect a Baird silver bar sold by Baird to be cheaper than one sold by a dealer. (Yes I know this isn’t usually the case for RM stuff) The same in other cases?

[James32]

7 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I didn't really want to go calling out a specific vendor but something around £700 or so including VAT is more common on dealer websites (although this is not universal) where this was more like £660.  I was really trying to find out if there was some reason for this that I was missing rather than start a bunfight about dealer's margins.

 

Well, that was the £64,000 question.  Is the difference in price just happenstance or is there some factor that I wasn't aware of at play?

Baird are usually cheaper as they are also a refinery ( they mint/cast their own bars) whereas other dealers have to source in..that will explain some of the price difference 🤔 

[Silverlocks]

That is what I'm wondering.  Am I just seeing a vendor selling retail a bit cheaper because they can do it without the dealer margin.  Maybe they have some excess inventory they want to shift or something, although I saw another outfit (Betts) selling their own brand silver bars at a similar price.

[Silverlocks]

Just now, James32 said:

Baird are usually cheaper as they are also a refinery ( they mint/cast their own bars) whereas other dealers have to source in..that will explain some of the price difference 🤔 

That makes sense.  It's interesting to see that they are usually cheaper as well - I would have expected, other things being equal, that they would have sold it at somewhere about the going rate for the retail market.  Maybe they're feeling a bit of a pinch from the Swiss outfits and trying to gain market share.  

[Petra]

2 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

That makes sense.  It's interesting to see that they are usually cheaper as well - I would have expected, other things being equal, that they would have sold it at somewhere about the going rate for the retail market.  Maybe they're feeling a bit of a pinch from the Swiss outfits and trying to gain market share.  

At the end of the day just shop around. For the sake of a piece of paper coa are you going to miss out on a reasonable priced vintage Johnson Mathey bar? Don’t think so!

[James32]

Just now, Silverlocks said:

That makes sense.  It's interesting to see that they are usually cheaper as well - I would have expected, other things being equal, that they would have sold it at somewhere about the going rate for the retail market.  Maybe they're feeling a bit of a pinch from the Swiss outfits and trying to gain market share.  

They have been cheapest for cast bars a few years now, they probably just have their materials/refining/recycling costs bolted down tight. Its better to make a few thousand £20 profits...rather than a few hundred £50 profits. 

[Petra]

Only have small Baird silver bars, but good price and nicely packaged 

[James32]

@Silverlocks if you are in the market for a kilo of silver, then both I and @Leonmarsh have bars listed at £640 ( personally I'd choose Leon's as its ten times cooler looking 😂)

[Silverlocks]

3 minutes ago, James32 said:

They have been cheapest for cast bars a few years now, they probably just have their materials/refining/recycling costs bolted down tight. Its better to make a few thousand £20 profits...rather than a few hundred £50 profits. 

I think the silver forum has come through again with cogent answers to a question, even if in the nature of an informed guess.  Well done all.

[Silverlocks]

3 minutes ago, James32 said:

@Silverlocks if you are in the market for a kilo of silver, then both I and @Leonmarsh have bars listed at £640 ( personally I'd choose Leon's as its ten times cooler looking 😂)

I think I will be in about 3 weeks when I get back from Indonesia, although I'm still cogitating on whether to get a purchase of silver or gold.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Silverlocks

[James32]

1 minute ago, Silverlocks said:

I think I will be in about 3 weeks when I get back from Indonesia, although I'm still cogitating on where to get a purchase of silver or gold.  

I'm biased but whatever you are choosing, checkout the forum first.

[Leonmarsh]

5 minutes ago, James32 said:

@Silverlocks if you are in the market for a kilo of silver, then both I and @Leonmarsh have bars listed at £640 ( personally I'd choose Leon's as its ten times cooler looking 😂)

Going to melt mine down and make it in to a big silver dong with TSF engraved on it 

Just now, Leonmarsh said:

Going to melt mine down and make it in to a big silver dong with TSF engraved on it 

From vintage beauty to a newly cast dong 

[Silverlocks]

2 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

Going to melt mine down and make it in to a big silver dong with TSF engraved on it 

From vintage beauty to a newly cast dong 

Who's the body parts model?

[Leonmarsh]

5 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

Who's the body parts model?

I could make 16 of my dong from this kg unfortunately 

[Silverlocks]

1 minute ago, Leonmarsh said:

I could make 16 of my dong from this kg unfortunately 

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Silverlocks said:

I didn't really want to go calling out a specific vendor but something around £700 or so including VAT is more common on dealer websites (although this is not universal) where this was more like £660.  I was really trying to find out if there was some reason for this that I was missing rather than start a bunfight about dealer's margins.

 Well, that was the £64,000 question.  Is the difference in price just happenstance or is there some factor that I wasn't aware of at play?

It's not "calling out" a vendor to mention their prices, or to compare them with others, although you could have said Dealer A, Dealer B, etc., but it does make sense to quote the actual prices as you just have.

With intrinsic silver currently at £496.67 per kilo, a £40 difference between £700 and £660 is not such a vast chasm.

In fact you can buy from a well-known Blackpool dealer for about £660:

1 Kg Silver Bar Our Choice - New

Buy silver bullion bars at low prices above spot! 

These our choice one kilo silver bars are struck in 999 fineness and contain 32.15 troy ounces of the precious metal. Our selection of silver bars come from renowned international refineries and are a favourite with investors all over the world. Each silver bar is brand new and is stamped with a serial number for authenticity.

Buy in bulk and qualify for discounts on quantity breaks - the more you buy, the more you save!

£663.43

(Inc. VAT)

-

And we have other kilo silver bars:

SHOWING: 1-11 OF 11 ITEMS

VIEW TYPE:  

SORT BY:

 

 £ per Oz / Best Deals Price - Low to High Price - High to Low Date - Ascending Date - Descending 

1 Kg Silver Bar Our Choice - New

from £652.36 (Taxable)

In Stock

1 Kg Silver Bar Metalor Cast - New

from £678.43 (Taxable)

In Stock

Silver 1 Kg Bar Baird Cast - New

from £677.87 (Taxable)

In Stock

1 Kg Silver Bar Valcambi SA - Cast

£696.08 (Taxable)

In Stock

Some of which come with certificates, all currently under £700.

Personally, I would just buy for the silver, unless you want a nice pretty bar as a gift for someone.

Of course, i would probably also wait for a second-hand one at an even better price...

... or just invest in gold, and legaly avoid the dreaded VAT.

😎

Edited August 31, 2022 by LawrenceChard

[Silverlocks]

7 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

It's not "calling out" a vendor to mention their prices, or to compare them with others, although you could have said Dealer A, Dealer B, etc., but it does make sense to quote the actual prices as you just have.

Fair enough.  

Quote

 

With intrinsic silver currently at £496.67 per kilo, a £40 difference between £700 and £660 is not such a vast chasm.

In fact you can buy from a well-known Balckpool dealer for about £660:

 

Seems I'm not the only one fat-fingering my postings ;-}

Don't worry.  I've only just started and haven't purchased anything from any Balckpool dealers yet but when the time comes I shall definitely keep that certain well-known dealer in mind.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Silverlocks

[LawrenceChard]

11 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

Fair enough.  

Seems I'm not the only one fat-fingering my postings ;-}

Don't worry.  I've only just started and haven't purchased anything from any Balckpool dealers yet but when the time comes I shall definitely keep that certain well-known dealer in mind.

 

My spelling is good. It used to be excellent, but my fingers are dyslexic.

😎

[Silverlocks]

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

My spelling is good. It used to be excellent, but my fingers are dyslexic.

😎

I get a similar problem in my old age (I'm nearly 28 now).  My fingers are a bit addled with a lifetime of OOS and my hands are a bit stiff, so I fat finger the keyboard much more often than I used to.