British Numismatic Society - In Defence of the Sovereign: Mass Production and Counterfeiting in the 1950s and 1960s

[LawrenceChard]

In the latest BNA JUNE 2022 E-NEWS e-mail I received, there are details of a forthcoming meeting, which will feature an "address" (talk), by Chris Barker, who is Information and Research Manager at the Royal Mint in Llantrisant.

The title of the talk is "In Defence of the Sovereign: Mass Production and Counterfeiting in the 1950s and 1960s".

Held at The Royal Philatelic Society London (RPSL), next Tuesday, 28 June. A fully-hybrid event broadcast over Zoom, it's all about modern gold coins – specifically the role of the sovereign in mid-20th century international trade. 

It is available to BNA members, but for further details check https://www.britnumsoc.org/

I intend to join the Zoom version.

The newsletter uses one of our photos:

The fake 1920-L London Mint sovereign. I had forgotten all about this coin, which is featured here:

https://goldsovereigns.co.uk/1920fakelondonmintsovereign.html

I could also have provided bigger and better photos of at least one fake 1957 sovereign.

If I get the chance, I might ask Chris Barker about the colour and silver content of "Crown Gold" and modern sovereigns.

 

[LawrenceChard]

On 23/06/2022 at 23:03, LawrenceChard said:

In the latest BNA JUNE 2022 E-NEWS e-mail I received, there are details of a forthcoming meeting, which will feature an "address" (talk), by Chris Barker, who is Information and Research Manager at the Royal Mint in Llantrisant.

The title of the talk is "In Defence of the Sovereign: Mass Production and Counterfeiting in the 1950s and 1960s".

Held at The Royal Philatelic Society London (RPSL), next Tuesday, 28 June. A fully-hybrid event broadcast over Zoom, it's all about modern gold coins – specifically the role of the sovereign in mid-20th century international trade. 

It is available to BNA members, but for further details check https://www.britnumsoc.org/

I intend to join the Zoom version.

The newsletter uses one of our photos:

The fake 1920-L London Mint sovereign. I had forgotten all about this coin, which is featured here:

https://goldsovereigns.co.uk/1920fakelondonmintsovereign.html

I could also have provided bigger and better photos of at least one fake 1957 sovereign.

If I get the chance, I might ask Chris Barker about the colour and silver content of "Crown Gold" and modern sovereigns.

 

Anybody have any suggestions for other questions to Chris Barker?

 

[RDHC]

On 23/06/2022 at 23:03, LawrenceChard said:

In the latest BNA JUNE 2022 E-NEWS e-mail I received, there are details of a forthcoming meeting, which will feature an "address" (talk), by Chris Barker, who is Information and Research Manager at the Royal Mint in Llantrisant.

The title of the talk is "In Defence of the Sovereign: Mass Production and Counterfeiting in the 1950s and 1960s".

Held at The Royal Philatelic Society London (RPSL), next Tuesday, 28 June. A fully-hybrid event broadcast over Zoom, it's all about modern gold coins – specifically the role of the sovereign in mid-20th century international trade. 

It is available to BNA members, but for further details check https://www.britnumsoc.org/

I intend to join the Zoom version.

The newsletter uses one of our photos:

 

If I get the chance, I might ask Chris Barker about the colour and silver content of "Crown Gold" and modern sovereigns.

 

Excellent idea. Thank you, Lawrence.

Roger

[RDHC]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

Anybody have any suggestions for other questions to Chris Barker?

 

Yes please: does the Royal Mint really have to demean itself by issuing so many special editions based on this or that ephemeral theme and so many variants of a particular coin? Does he realise that it is becoming like the mint of a small country that is obliged to issue such coins so as to boost its tiny revenues? Or like those countries that used to - perhaps they still do - issue dozens of instantly forgettable postage stamps on every slight pretext for the same reason?

That is how I see it, but quite likely others would disagree.

[SidS]

I'm still waiting for the coin (or stamp) commemorating the sky being blue. They could also issue something to commemorate the most commemoratives ever issued in a single year, that'd be something to sing home about.

This is the reason all my UK coin collections stop at decimalisation. Commems of this era are few and far between, namely:

1935, 1937, 1951, 1953, 1960 and 1965 crowns. Full stop and done, and even those six seem a little excessive to be honest.

Was the 1960 really necessary?

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, RDHC said:

Yes please: does the Royal Mint really have to demean itself by issuing so many special editions based on this or that ephemeral theme and so many variants of a particular coin? Does he realise that it is becoming like the mint of a small country that is obliged to issue such coins so as to boost its tiny revenues? Or like those countries that used to - perhaps they still do - issue dozens of instantly forgettable postage stamps on every slight pretext for the same reason?

That is how I see it, but quite likely others would disagree.

I'm not sure I should ask that question, although perhaps I could include it as an example.

I have not yet drafted my own questions, but I think they will be quite challenging as it is.

😎

[RDHC]

3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I'm not sure I should ask that question, although I perhaps I could include it as an example.

I have not yet drafted my own questions, but I think they will be quite challenging as it is.

😎

Fair enough.

Roger

[dicker]

Something I was a little curious about was a description on an auction site (v recently) that stated that 1925 Sovs had been re-struck in the 1940’s for wartime  purposes?!  I had not heard that before.   

I have only ever seen mention of 1925 Sovereigns being re-struck in 1949 / 1950 / 1951.  I had read that this was as much to keep minting skills intact but don’t really buy that. It was somewhat lazy of the RM to default into using the 1925 dies in 49, 59, 51.

Allegedly high rim 1925 Sovs are the restrikes, low rim (normal) Sovs are the ones minted in 1925 and are considerably less frequently encountered.

 

 

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, dicker said:

Something I was a little curious about was a description on an auction site (v recently) that stated that 1925 Sovs had been re-struck in the 1940’s for wartime  purposes?!  I had not heard that before.   

I have only ever seen mention of 1925 Sovereigns being re-struck in 1949 / 1950 / 1951.  I had read that this was as much to keep minting skills intact but don’t really buy that. It was somewhat lazy of the RM to default into using the 1925 dies in 49, 59, 51.

Allegedly high rim 1925 Sovs are the restrikes, low rim (normal) Sovs are the ones minted in 1925 and are considerably less frequently encountered.

 

I hope it was here that you read it:

https://www.chards.co.uk/1925-gold-sovereign-george-v-london/6021#:~:text=1925 Sovereign Restrikes,George V sovereigns dated 1925.

or here:

https://goldsovereigns.co.uk/1925sovereign.html

😎

[dicker]

14 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I hope it was here that you read it:

https://www.chards.co.uk/1925-gold-sovereign-george-v-london/6021#:~:text=1925 Sovereign Restrikes,George V sovereigns dated 1925.

or here:

https://goldsovereigns.co.uk/1925sovereign.html

😎

Yes as well as well as a book - perhaps Marsh but I can’t remember for sure. 

But I have not ever seen any mention on any reliable sources that Sovs were minted in the 1940 - 1945!

 

[LawrenceChard]

10 minutes ago, dicker said:

Yes as well as well as a book - perhaps Marsh but I can’t remember for sure. 

But I have not ever seen any mention on any reliable sources that Sovs were minted in the 1940 - 1945!

 

Probably incorrect then.

We all know that auction houses can't even distinguish between genuine and fake!

😎