Q.V. Reverse Shield or George V sovereign?

[RDHC]

O.K. Here's a little dilemma that I have thought up. Assume that both sovereigns are genuinely 'Extremely Fine', though nothing especially fancy about dates or mints or errors, but the Q.V. Young Head costs at least £40-50 more, so it's a hefty premium. One would be paying more for the more attractive coin, I assume - let's face it the young Victoria is better looking than G.5, unless your taste runs to middle-aged men with beards  (no offence to readers that may fit that description), and the shield design seems to win over George and the Dragon - but would one also be paying for a coin that would, in all probability, do better in the long run i.e. keep or enhance its value? I perhaps haven't expressed it all that brilliantly, but I hope you get the general idea.

Just an idle thought that occurred to me. Maybe I ought to find better things to do with my time.

(Why not Edward VII you may ask? Well, it seems to me that his sovereigns are a bit murkier with average wear and tear, perhaps because the original portrait wasn't that good, perhaps because his bald head doesn't come over well even in E.F. coins.)

[Booky586]

Queen Victoria shield every time but they are my favourite. I would like to think it will hold it's premium in the future, but who knows?

[Foster88]

You have asked quite a good question.

As a sovereign collector those are my two favourites that you have mentioned and are the majority of my collection, the young head Victoria shield and the George V George and Dragon.

As you said, Edward VII sovereigns haven't really appealed to me. One explanation for many of these showing signs of wear, in comparison to say George V is that the gold sovereign was taken out of circulation in 1914. Which you may or may not already know.

I like the variety of different branch mints with the George V sovereigns. Although they are of the same reverse design, there are some real rarities out there.

I know not many have this opinion and everyone collects different sovereign varieties for different reasons.

[RDHC]

2 hours ago, Foster88 said:

You have asked quite a good question.

As a sovereign collector those are my two favourites that you have mentioned and are the majority of my collection, the young head Victoria shield and the George V George and Dragon.

As you said, Edward VII sovereigns haven't really appealed to me. One explanation for many of these showing signs of wear, in comparison to say George V is that the gold sovereign was taken out of circulation in 1914. Which you may or may not already know.

I like the variety of different branch mints with the George V sovereigns. Although they are of the same reverse design, there are some real rarities out there.

I know not many have this opinion and everyone collects different sovereign varieties for different reasons.

I'm glad that my question wasn't entirely stupid. 

Re. 1914 and sovereigns going out of circulation: was that a government requirement or did people simply donate their sovereigns for the patriotic war effort?

[RDHC]

2 hours ago, Booky586 said:

Queen Victoria shield every time but they are my favourite. I would like to think it will hold it's premium in the future, but who knows?

I tend to agree. My best guess is that they will hold their value, as they seem to have done for some time now. I don't have the research to prove it, but my impression is that the reverse shield coins have not lost all that much from the high point of everything gold later in 2020, though they have suffered a bit during this testing period.

[SidS]

Victorian shield sovereigns all the way for me.

Regarding withdrawal of sovereigns, I don't think there is a definitive answer. The facts I know:

1) The government stopped paying them out after August 1914 and issued Treasury notes instead.

2) The government began the propaganda campaign to donate sovereigns for the war effort, using posters etc.

3) I assume banks would collect in any sovereigns paid in and send them back to the treasury. Banks would no longer pay out gold coins.

4) Theoretically gold coins could still circulate freely amongst the population, and shops could still accept them, but if paid into the bank they'd disappear from circulation.

5) At some point in around early 30s gold companies/jewellers were offering more than face value for sovereigns... Which is strongly indicative that they were not current.

6) In Australia, sovereigns and halves remained in circulation until around 1931/2 - as evidenced by their banknotes stating that they were redeemable for gold (much like US gold certs).

7) South Africa may have seen gold until around 1932 as well, not sure how prevalent though.

[SidS]

I forgot to add...

I suspect in 1915 there were still some sovereigns kicking about, by 1917 they had gone. I read a BNJ article written in 1917 celebrating the hundredth anniversary of the Great Recoinage in 1817, stating that sovereigns were not current.

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, rdhcustance said:

O.K. Here's a little dilemma that I have thought up. Assume that both sovereigns are genuinely 'Extremely Fine', though nothing especially fancy about dates or mints or errors, but the Q.V. Young Head costs at least £40-50 more, so it's a hefty premium. One would be paying more for the more attractive coin, I assume - let's face it the young Victoria is better looking than G.5, unless your taste runs to middle-aged men with beards  (no offence to readers that may fit that description), and the shield design seems to win over George and the Dragon - but would one also be paying for a coin that would, in all probability, do better in the long run i.e. keep or enhance its value? I perhaps haven't expressed it all that brilliantly, but I hope you get the general idea.

Just an idle thought that occurred to me. Maybe I ought to find better things to do with my time.

(Why not Edward VII you may ask? Well, it seems to me that his sovereigns are a bit murkier with average wear and tear, perhaps because the original portrait wasn't that good, perhaps because his bald head doesn't come over well even in E.F. coins.)

If the choice was between an 1841 or a 1917 London Mint, it could be a tough choice! 🙂

[RDHC]

9 hours ago, SidS said:

I forgot to add...

I suspect in 1915 there were still some sovereigns kicking about, by 1917 they had gone. I read a BNJ article written in 1917 celebrating the hundredth anniversary of the Great Recoinage in 1817, stating that sovereigns were not current.

Thank you very much for your well-informed and interesting contributions. Thousands of people must have squirrelled their sovereigns away, which would explain why so many now turn up in otherwise surprisingly good condition. 

[RDHC]

7 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

If the choice was between an 1841 or a 1917 London Mint, it could be a tough choice! 🙂

I get your point. Think I would go for the 1841, however.

[SidS]

It took some finding but I managed to locate the original source material for one of my posts above. For those interested see:

http://www.britnumsoc.org/publicns/bnj-articles-by-year

It comes as a PDF so I can't link directly.

But under the '1918' menu there is an article written by H W Morrieson, entitled 'The centenary of our modern coinage...'

Next to the title there is a little green square, this takes you to the article.

Note the last paragraph of Pg. 122 and the first two paragraphs of Pg. 123.

 Summarised it argues that although sovereigns represent the main unit of currency of the land 'they are now rarely seen' and are looked upon by some as 'curiosities'. He further states he hopes this 'scarcity will be of short duration'.

My take home from that was, in 1918 it was still thought of as a temporary measure and that sovereigns were coming back upon the war's conclusion. That sovereigns were still circulating in some form, very much reduced though, to the point where some might view them as unusual.

I suppose a modern example may be the use of pre-1997 all brass £2 coins, I've seen a few used in circulation, more common in the late 1990s, much less common now. The last one I got in change being around 2012.

[CollectorNo1]

Vicky every time, shieldbacks my favourite.  I only have a few GV sovs..the 1918 I mint and some Canadian mint because of their mintages... There is something magical about the young head shieldback  Victoria sovreigns that imo just can't be beaten.

[CollectorNo1]

10 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

If the choice was between an 1841 or a 1917 London Mint, it could be a tough choice! 🙂

I just bought a 1917 sovereign from China 😆😆😆😆😆

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, SidS said:

It took some finding but I managed to locate the original source material for one of my posts above. For those interested see:

http://www.britnumsoc.org/publicns/bnj-articles-by-year

My take home from that was, in 1918 it was still thought of as a temporary measure and that sovereigns were coming back upon the war's conclusion. That sovereigns were still circulating in some form, very much reduced though, to the point where some might view them as unusual.

I suppose a modern example may be the use of pre-1997 all brass £2 coins, I've seen a few used in circulation, more common in the late 1990s, much less common now. The last one I got in change being around 2012.

Thanks for posting the British Numismatic Society Link.

"in 1918 it was still thought of as a temporary measure and that sovereigns were coming back"

Temporary measure - like income tax?

Income Tax was the first tax in British history to be levied directly on people's earnings. It was introduced in 1799 by the then Prime Minister William Pitt the Younger, as a temporary measure to cover the cost of the Napoleonic Wars.

"I suppose a modern example may be the use of pre-1997 all brass £2 coins, I've seen a few used in circulation, more common in the late 1990s, much less common now."

Every year, we get hundreds of phone calls, e-mails, and showroom enquries from people who have received or found one or more of these, and are convinced they are gold.

Our customer service staff work very hard and patiently to try to enlighten people, but many are highly resistant to the truth, probably because it is not what they want to hear. 🙂

Sometimes their brass coins get listed next day on ebay as gold!😒

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, CollectorNo1 said:

I just bought a 1917 sovereign from China 😆😆😆😆😆

Genuine?

London Mint?

Did it cost more than £2?

🙂

[LawrenceChard]

6 hours ago, rdhcustance said:

I get your point. Think I would go for the 1841, however.

Probably a good call, but we have owned a few of those, but not a single 1917-L, as yet. (At least not a genuine one) 

[SidS]

How many 1917-L coins do you suppose escaped the melting pot? Impossible to know for sure I know.

[CollectorNo1]

28 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Genuine?

London Mint?

Did it cost more than £2?

🙂

Absolutely but I did have to splash out...£2.50 🤣

[SidS]

41 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Absolutely but I did have to splash out...£2.50 🤣

That's going in strong! More than its face value... 😁

[LawrenceChard]

7 hours ago, SidS said:

That's going in strong! More than its face value... 😁

Yes, but I think it's because he fell for the "free postage"! 🙂

[LawrenceChard]

On 20/08/2021 at 10:55, CollectorNo1 said:

Vicky every time, shieldbacks my favourite.  I only have a few GV sovs..the 1918 I mint and some Canadian mint because of their mintages... There is something magical about the young head shieldback  Victoria sovreigns that imo just can't be beaten.

Yes, those 1918-I do have a low mintage:

😎

[CollectorNo1]

18 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Yes, those 1918-I do have a low mintage:

😎

A few coins you found down the back of your sofa?🤭

[LawrenceChard]

18 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

A few coins you found down the back of your sofa?🤭

😎 Actually, I thought we had more.

I am serious, and my wife just said, we used to have over 100 in stock.

 

[CollectorNo1]

27 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

😎 Actually, I thought we had more.

I am serious, and my wife just said, we used to have over 100 in stock.

 

Better check your car,I'm always finding coins there....😁

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Better check your car,I'm always finding coins there....😁

That explains where they have gone. You have been finding them in my car! 😎