Hattons of London Dunkirk 1/4 sovereign

[Katie]

I got an email letting me know if that's what you mean. I might be wrong here but it looks like they're trying to buy back the unshielded coins as that's what's on the buy back picture. Seems odd that they would use a different picture. Either way they were selling 1 type of coin and sending out 2 lol. Strange stuff :). I wonder what this means for the true mintage. 

[TownCalledMalice]

Thought I'd fire off an email to Hattons and I'll post their reply when I receive it.

Hope I've covered everything and just thought it would be an idea to get an official response documented so we all know exactly what we have  

 

Dear Hattons,

Re: Dunkirk 80th Anniversary 1/4 Sovereign

During conversation with a community of like-minded friends and purchasers, we have noticed a difference between the coins we have received and would request clarification on a few points.

Firstly, it appears that some of us have received a version that visually matches the original marketing material; namely with a small shield in the bottom left corner - others without.

Secondly, the accompanying paperwork (certificate of authenticity and invoice) on the shielded coins refers to them being a 'proof' version. The mintage for these states 1999 as opposed to the marketed 3999.

Thirdly, it is also noted that your website shows the shield version in the original promotional photos and an unshielded version in the 'buyback' section.

Finally, we have observed unshielded versions appearing for sale on Ebay and a packaged set including a full and half sovereign (shielded) with an unshielded quarter sovereign. Again, your website promotional photos show them all as shielded.

Nothing is mentioned on your website regarding a 'proof' or different versions. As such, could you please let us know why different coins have been dispatched under the same initial offer and what the official mintage of each one is?

These questions are quite important and as you can appreciate, this apparent randomness makes us rather wary of purchasing your future issues.

Please also be aware that I will be posting your response to our community.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

 

[snipersam]

4 minutes ago, TownCalledMalice said:

Thought I'd fire off an email to Hattons and I'll post their reply when I receive it.

Hope I've covered everything and just thought it would be an idea to get an official response documented so we all know exactly what we have  

 

Dear Hattons,

Re: Dunkirk 80th Anniversary 1/4 Sovereign

During conversation with a community of like-minded friends and purchasers, we have noticed a difference between the coins we have received and would request clarification on a few points.

Firstly, it appears that some of us have received a version that visually matches the original marketing material; namely with a small shield in the bottom left corner - others without.

Secondly, the accompanying paperwork (certificate of authenticity and invoice) on the shielded coins refers to them being a 'proof' version. The mintage for these states 1999 as opposed to the marketed 3999.

Thirdly, it is also noted that your website shows the shield version in the original promotional photos and an unshielded version in the 'buyback' section.

Finally, we have observed unshielded versions appearing for sale on Ebay and a packaged set including a full and half sovereign (shielded) with an unshielded quarter sovereign. Again, your website promotional photos show them all as shielded.

Nothing is mentioned on your website regarding a 'proof' or different versions. As such, could you please let us know why different coins have been dispatched under the same initial offer and what the official mintage of each one is?

These questions are quite important and as you can appreciate, this apparent randomness makes us rather wary of purchasing your future issues.

Please also be aware that I will be posting your response to our community.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

Dear Hattons.docxUnavailable

👆🏻 Nice one. 

[TownCalledMalice]

Had a call this morning from Hattons to go through the points raised and they've promised to provide the answers in writing (email) to me. I'll post this as soon as I receive it.

Please take the following as my understanding of the conversation but it is of course editorialised!

To summarise, it looks like @Fishface220 was right regarding the mintage's - there were 3999 BU's produced and 1999 proofs of which 1940 were earmarked for the three coin sets.

Due to demand, the 'spare' proofs and some from the sets were used to satisfy the orders received before they dropped the 'sold out' shutters. There was mention of orders coming in over the weekend but I would have imagined any modern software/stock control system would have taken care of this.

The buyback offer (which is real) relates to both the proofs and the BU's as they still have a waiting list for any 1/4's they get back (due to the sale of the full and half sov's together with a box that also takes a 1/4).

I dare say that any 'bought back' will be put out at a higher price to satisfy the demand.

It appears that it really was blind luck whether you received the proof or BU version in the initial offer.

Hattons also mentioned that do not usually advertise proof versions are they are 'generally' produced solely for the large sets.

As mentioned, I'll post the official reply as soon as I receive it but fair play to Hattons, they certainly jumped on this rapidly (even if they did try to sell me the other two sovs lol )

[Fishface220]

1 hour ago, TownCalledMalice said:

Had a call this morning from Hattons to go through the points raised and they've promised to provide the answers in writing (email) to me. I'll post this as soon as I receive it.

Please take the following as my understanding of the conversation but it is of course editorialised!

To summarise, it looks like @Fishface220 was right regarding the mintage's - there were 3999 BU's produced and 1999 proofs of which 1940 were earmarked for the three coin sets.

Due to demand, the 'spare' proofs and some from the sets were used to satisfy the orders received before they dropped the 'sold out' shutters. There was mention of orders coming in over the weekend but I would have imagined any modern software/stock control system would have taken care of this.

The buyback offer (which is real) relates to both the proofs and the BU's as they still have a waiting list for any 1/4's they get back (due to the sale of the full and half sov's together with a box that also takes a 1/4).

I dare say that any 'bought back' will be put out at a higher price to satisfy the demand.

It appears that it really was blind luck whether you received the proof or BU version in the initial offer.

Hattons also mentioned that do not usually advertise proof versions are they are 'generally' produced solely for the large sets.

As mentioned, I'll post the official reply as soon as I receive it but fair play to Hattons, they certainly jumped on this rapidly (even if they did try to sell me the other two sovs lol )

Glad to see they didn’t miss the opportunity to sell you the other two sovereigns for the set.

 

great digging

[Katie]

Thanks for the update. I'm interested to see what they give you in writing and whether they commit to that explanation because that just doesn't make sense. Considering the regular ones they were selling had the shield on the website picture. It seems that at least one of the illusive 'proof' 3 piece sets came with the regular 1/4 coin, too. I have also yet to see a regular 3 piece set. Something smells odd. Add to that the whopping 101% premium and I don't think I'm buying it.

I sense that they're trying to buy these back because some of the people who got the 3 piece sets have noticed that one is different and have kicked off.

[Fishface220]

Reckon you might be right there Katie, i’d be pissed too if the send me a mix match of coins in a collector set.... they ain’t having mine back, not now I know they might want it!! (Cut nose off I know but hey, could be my only every proof coin!!)

Also a little bit of fibbing on their behalf. Limited to 3999 was what it said, no mention of the other 1999 they also produced. 

[TownCalledMalice]

No reply yet - I'm guessing they're going to choose their words carefully.

They were indicating that the waiting list has been created from the customers who bought the full and half sov sets (£900 on the site) however I can't see that they included a box with these two containing a blank space for the 1/4 (and it's certainly not advertised as such). Weird as well that the full set (including the 1/4 and the box) is just another £99 (£999 total)? If you're spending £900 it would be a little strange to not pay another 11% to get the set (and they are all different ships as well).

30 minutes ago, Fishface220 said:

Also a little bit of fibbing on their behalf. Limited to 3999 was what it said, no mention of the other 1999 they also produced. 

I agree but I suppose that technically they are correct with the mintage as 3999 BU's were produced - they just didn't advertise that another 1999 proofs were made for the sets (well 1940 to match the Dunkirk date - same as the 1/2's).

 

1 hour ago, Katie said:

I have also yet to see a regular 3 piece set

The set was definitely meant to be proofs only - it's the only one they advertise actually saying proof in the marketing (and it includes the nice box):

To me it smells like a screw up with dispatch that couldn't be undone - buybacks, as Katie said, may be an attempt to salvage the error but I'll wager we never get to find out.

[TownCalledMalice]

Chased up Hattons this morning and here's the official reply:

(I've posted a cut and paste of the email as the image is a little tricky to read)

It's much as what as was mentioned earlier in the thread and just a mini lucky break for those who received the proof.

 

Dear 

Thank you for your email. Please accept my apologies for the delay in sending you the required information. I am pleased to hear that your call with Kieran was helpful.

The 2020 Dunkirk range includes two quarter sovereigns, A BU (brilliant uncirculated) and a Proof quality version.

The BU version donates the shield sign and the mintage is limited to 3,999, this version is the one you will have seen on all of our marketing material. We also produce a proof quality of the same coin which does not include the shield sign, this is primarily used to complete the prestige sovereign set (3 coin set) and the definitive sovereign set (5 coin set). However, this can be purchased singly but is not including in all of our marketing material. The Proof quality version mintage is limited to 1,999.

We received such an overwhelming response to this particular product that it sold out very quickly, to which we experienced an overlap of the 'sell out' and all of our marketing data being updated with this information. So as not to disappoint any of our clients we placed the proof quality version onto an introductory offer price to fulfil the orders we had received.

I hope I have been able to clarify all the points you have made but if you do require any further information please do not hesitate to email back or contact us directly on 0333 234 3101.

Best wishes,

Joan Porter 

Client Services Manager

Hattons of London

[Katie]

2 minutes ago, TownCalledMalice said:

We also produce a proof quality of the same coin which does not include the shield sign

So they're saying the non-shielded version is proof now? Despite the only proof set on their site all having the shield. Also the non-shielded quarter paperwork says 3999 but shielded says 1999. This is all very strange. 

Thank you for the update, though. Thanks for chasing them and getting this info. Much appreciated for sharing.

[TownCalledMalice]

You're right, I just read that bit as 'proof with shield' - this makes no (insert curse of choice) sense!

I'm thinking it's a typo but I've written back - report back later 

 

 

[Hunter87]

Don’t let them off the hook! 

[TownCalledMalice]

Yup, typo (think I've got the snip image size sorted this time).

Slightly disappointing for those that received the BU version but I guess it was still a very good price, nice coin and the difference at this size is always going to be minimal.

Credit where it's due as well, I read an awful lot on the forum about abysmal customer service from companies and I have to say Hattons have made this very easy to deal with.

Cheers @Fishface220 for spotting the buyback and @Katie for the eagle eyes!

Here's to the next £99 quarter ounce lottery 

[SteveEMA]

After reading all the comments today as I've been busy with work I'm still of a mind to keep my quarter sov, I'll have to check whether mine has the shield or not, when I finish working away.

[TownCalledMalice]

2 minutes ago, SteveEMA said:

I'm still of a mind to keep my quarter sov

I would anyway but I think the offer to buy them back has now closed.

[SteveEMA]

On 25/09/2020 at 15:07, Clockpuncher said:

Take them up on the offer and then double your 'in hand' gold weight to a Royal Mint half sov.

Doubt you'll be offered a 100% premium for this coin ever again!

Just seen your comment as been very busy working away, until I check if mine has the shield or not I'm still going to hang on to it. 

[SteveEMA]

Just had a look on fleabay, these coins are selling at buy now for £200 to £295 each. A bit mad if you ask me but I think they will go, still holding on to mine though. 

[Fishface220]

Had the sell out certificate come thru today.... gonna look wicked framed in the downstairs toilet!!

[GoldStatue]

52 minutes ago, Fishface220 said:

Had the sell out certificate come thru today.... gonna look wicked framed in the downstairs toilet!!

Wouldn't look out of place next to my 25m front crawl certificate 😀

Not sure why you'd need a hand signed certificate for something like that, very odd!

[TownCalledMalice]

Me too - it did make me smile 🤣

I suggest we all baton down the hatches and buckle up for all of the coming 'secondary market action'  - going to be epic 🤪

[Fishface220]

1 hour ago, GoldStatue said:

Wouldn't look out of place next to my 25m front crawl certificate 😀

Not sure why you'd need a hand signed certificate for something like that, very odd!

I was expecting a little bit of card or something but not a A4 certificate. Nice touch I guess. 

[GoodAsGold]

On 25/11/2020 at 13:13, Fishface220 said:

Had the sell out certificate come thru today.... gonna look wicked framed in the downstairs toilet!!

I agree. The downstairs toilet is certainly the best place to display it. Especially as the certificate is signed “Smelly”