The case for silver against gold

[sixgun]

8 hours ago, Roy said:

All the above are true! 

I have to hand it to you @sixgun, you have probably been the most consistent silver supporter on the forum!

I suspect your silver holding is impressive and I hope you are handsomely rewarded for your patience.

(Will you be converting it to gold?)

😃

 

No i haven't thought about converting any to gold. i did start getting more gold to balance things out a bit but not converting. i may sell some silver at some point but only to move it into Kinesis once i am wholly convinced about the project. 

[HillWalkerDundee]

I made a note to look at kinesis when I get a moment

[BiigT]

For someone new to this world, I find this particular thread very interesting. For a start, many of the contributors on this thread have hundreds and in some cases thousands of posts and feedback, so one automatically tunes in because the discussion is being had between people we trust know something about this world. It's clear you know much more than me, but that's not hard given I've already admitted I'm brand new to this. If I outlined a prediction for the next 2 years, how many would give it a second glance? Not many I bet... Would that be because I haven't posted many threads or added value to conversations etc... Would you pay more attention if I had 5000+ posts and 4000+ feedback? I'd be willing to bet you would. 

So what's the point I'm making? I'll tell you. I (like many) got caught up in the crypto hype a few years ago. I missed the opportunity to buy bitcoin at $200 so by the time it was around $15000 and still sky rocketing, I kicked myself and vowed not to miss out again. I tuned into every post on crypto forums and sunk thousands into 15 or so different types of crypto, mostly because I listened to the pumpers. I initially gained loads everything looked rosy for a while (despite the constant warnings). When the bubble burst it all happened so fast I lost thousands in hours and more thousands days after that. I'm still sat on a lot of it now and oddly enough it's starting to recover again... But very.. very slowly. 

So last month I decided I wanted to buy gold and mainly for one of the reasons mentioned on here i.e. that imo it's automatically perceived as a value metal. Since being here (only a couple of weeks if that) I've bought silver in fair amounts and in all honesty, I'm probably caught up in the hype of the recent increase in price. 

That said, I don't mind. When I lost thousands in crypto I was prepared to lose it before I 'invested' a penny. I didn't think for a second I'd lose 90% of it, but I was willing none the less. For me personally, this is no different. I'm in the hype, but enjoying it and willing to lose value if it goes south. My plan is to invest a few thousand and see what happens in 10 years. If it rockets I might sell off a little and if it crashes I might buy more than I planned. The message to people setting out on this journey at the same time as me is to only do what you can recover from and only spend what you can genuinely afford to lose. 

I'm now toying with buying an oz of gold just to have some holding in it. I've no idea which will out perform the other, but I do know one thing from personal experience and that's that forums are mostly full of opinion and that can be a dangerous thing. Some responses (in fact most responses) in this discussion appear to be based on more than personal opinion so its been an interesting insight into why you sided with one metal over the other. Just ask yourself a question as to why you have that view? Is it based on research, education or years of personal experience? Or is it based off what you've read from other enthusiasts, even if you've been doing it years? 

If it's the former... I'd happily listen to you and would likely base my own strategy on some of your thinking. If it's the latter, you could be paying a guessing game. Just my ten pence worth. 

[BiigT]

7 hours ago, sixgun said:

No i haven't thought about converting any to gold. i did start getting more gold to balance things out a bit but not converting. i may sell some silver at some point but only to move it into Kinesis once i am wholly convinced about the project. 

What's Kinesis by the way? I need something else to throw some money into 😂🤣😂

[HillWalkerDundee]

Do your own research, make your own decisions and don't trust grown ups.

[HerefordBullyun]

Good response @BiigT the reason why I don't hold any gold myself is when I got back into PMs gold was still expensive and still is. This is the only reason but I do hold gold mining stocks and looking to get some more.

[BiigT]

9 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Good response @BiigT the reason why I don't hold any gold myself is when I got back into PMs gold was still expensive and still is. This is the only reason but I do hold gold mining stocks and looking to get some more.

 

9 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Good response @BiigT the reason why I don't hold any gold myself is when I got back into PMs gold was still expensive and still is. This is the only reason but I do hold gold mining stocks and looking to get some more.

Thanks. I was in two minds whether to post anything, but if I can help new people think twice about jumping on the bandwagon it's worth it. I don't think people pump the hype maliciously, but it's easy to join in the argument to support a certain view when it seems everyone else is doing the same and making money out of it at the same time! 

For me personally, I prefer physical assets but I do have two investment funds split over a host of different areas. 

[sixgun]

2 minutes ago, BiigT said:

What's Kinesis by the way? I need something else to throw some money into 😂🤣😂

Kinesis is a company setup in 2018. It was started by Tom Couglan who founded the Allocated Bullion Exchange https://abx.com
The ABX is a platform where you can buy and sell physical gold and silver which is vaulted in a number of vaults around the world. The ABX has been running since 2016 and is based in Australia.
Back in February 2018 Kinesis started selling Kinesis Velocity Tokens (KVT's) to raise cash for the project. The sale of KVT's stopped some time ago. 

Kinesis has a mint - https://mint.abx.com and a trading platform https://kms.kinesis.money

Kinesis uses its own a fork of the Stellar blockchain. Gold and silver is digitised as KAU and KAG. 
You can 'mint' KAU and KAG in the mint - you are basically buying lots of 100g gold and 200 oz silver.
One KAU = 1g gold and one KAG = 1oz silver.
A virtual debit card was recently launched - the physical card is down as being launched in November 2020.
https://kinesis.money/roadmap/

The fees generated by the system are shared between participants.

There are details on the youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXJEH6DxUixkTYhH4XxI7kQ
There is also an active Telegram group https://t.me/kinesismoney

[HillWalkerDundee]

4 minutes ago, BiigT said:

I don't think people pump the hype maliciously,

If you have directly hold any shares, particularly on AIM markets, then have a look at the various forums such as those on ADVFN and LSE. There you will see vicious ramping and deramping as people on both sides fight to drive a share price up or down. That's why I don't listen to grown ups.

[BiigT]

8 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Kinesis is a company setup in 2018. It was started by Tom Couglan who founded the Allocated Bullion Exchange https://abx.com
The ABX is a platform where you can buy and sell physical gold and silver which is vaulted in a number of vaults around the world. The ABX has been running since 2016 and is based in Australia.
Back in February 2018 Kinesis started selling Kinesis Velocity Tokens (KVT's) to raise cash for the project. The sale of KVT's stopped some time ago. 

Kinesis has a mint - https://mint.abx.com and a trading platform https://kms.kinesis.money

Kinesis uses its own a fork of the Stellar blockchain. Gold and silver is digitised as KAU and KAG. 
You can 'mint' KAU and KAG in the mint - you are basically buying lots of 100g gold and 200 oz silver.
One KAU = 1g gold and one KAG = 1oz silver.
A virtual debit card was recently launched - the physical card is down as being launched in November 2020.
https://kinesis.money/roadmap/

The fees generated by the system are shared between participants.

There are details on the youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXJEH6DxUixkTYhH4XxI7kQ
There is also an active Telegram group https://t.me/kinesismoney

I won't send this thread off on a tangent, but this is very interesting. Whilst I lost thousands in crypto, I still genuinely believe it will dominate large parts of the worlds economies in years to come, so much so that I bought heavily in vechain after reading the white paper. That world has got so much potential and this is something that I'll definitely be reading with interest. 

Thanks for sharing. 

[HillWalkerDundee]

Are any of the Kinesis cryptos linked to Stellar's Lumens (XLM).

[sixgun]

2 minutes ago, BiigT said:

I won't send this thread off on a tangent, but this is very interesting. Whilst I lost thousands in crypto, I still genuinely believe it will dominate large parts of the worlds economies in years to come, so much so that I bought heavily in vechain after reading the white paper. That world has got so much potential and this is something that I'll definitely be reading with interest. 

Thanks for sharing. 

Well it is not crypto - it is digital physical gold and silver - this is how the Indonesian government have defined it and this appears to be the way Kinesis likes it as well. The Indonesians are trialing things out and will build a joint vault in Indonesia with Kinesis - it is viewed as a project of national importance. 

[sixgun]

1 minute ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

Are any of the Kinesis cryptos linked to Stellar's Lumens (XLM).

i am not up of crypto - it is a fork and there are no lumens.

[HillWalkerDundee]

This is a very interesting development, more so if you believe that China is buying gold to back up their digital currency. 

[BiigT]

12 minutes ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

If you have directly hold any shares, particularly on AIM markets, then have a look at the various forums such as those on ADVFN and LSE. There you will see vicious ramping and deramping as people on both sides fight to drive a share price up or down. That's why I don't listen to grown ups.

Apologies, I meant the personal discussions I've had with people on here when negotiating a buying price. I've no doubt what you're saying is 100% true. 

[BiigT]

10 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Well it is not crypto - it is digital physical gold and silver - this is how the Indonesian government have defined it and this appears to be the way Kinesis likes it as well. The Indonesians are trialing things out and will build a joint vault in Indonesia with Kinesis - it is viewed as a project of national importance. 

No, but its built on the same model as crypto and many potential investors will only look at it through those eyes i.e. Whether it's worth putting your money in. The more that do it, the more chance it has to build momentum and therefore (potentially) a good opportunity to get into something early.

It's definitely sparked my interest. 

[KDave]

People discuss their investments, they are often enthusiastic and knowledgeable about them, that doesn't mean they are right.

Assume no one has a clue. Don't trust grown ups. Do your own research, that means learn about what you are investing in and learn what you are doing. Learn the difference between investing and speculation (gambling). 

You should not be ready to lose 90% that is insane. That is only possible with non diversified investing, there really isn't any need for it.

If you really must gamble on the next hot thing (again) then use a small amount of the portfolio (5-10%) and apply some risk management, use the right vehicle, use stop losses and set targets. 

If you lost thousands last time because of hype and listening to pumpers, why are you setting yourself up for round 2 of more of the same. There are screaming obvious lessons to be learned, that have not been learned. 

Nothing anyone says on here is advice, its all opinion. All the best. 

[BiigT]

7 hours ago, KDave said:

People discuss their investments, they are often enthusiastic and knowledgeable about them, that doesn't mean they are right.

Assume no one has a clue. Don't trust grown ups. Do your own research, that means learn about what you are investing in and learn what you are doing. Learn the difference between investing and speculation (gambling). 

You should not be ready to lose 90% that is insane. That is only possible with non diversified investing, there really isn't any need for it.

If you really must gamble on the next hot thing (again) then use a small amount of the portfolio (5-10%) and apply some risk management, use the right vehicle, use stop losses and set targets. 

If you lost thousands last time because of hype and listening to pumpers, why are you setting yourself up for round 2 of more of the same. There are screaming obvious lessons to be learned, that have not been learned. 

Nothing anyone says on here is advice, its all opinion. All the best. 

Any money you put into anything should be something you're willing to lose imo. Of course I didn't expect to lose 90%, but it happened and it didn't break the bank because I only put in what I could afford to lose.

This time round is different and whilst there are similarities, I'm not making the same mistakes twice. Yes, I'm caught up in the hype, but buying a few Oz of silver for a couple of hundred quid isn't the same as putting £5k into bitcoin. The risks this time round are still there, but I'm only playing with small percentages of my portfolio. 

[vand]

6 hours ago, BiigT said:

Any money you put into anything should be something you're willing to lose imo. Of course I didn't expect to lose 90%, but it happened and it didn't break the bank because I only put in what I could afford to lose.

 

No... that's called speculation, not investment. A sound investment has an intrinsic value - it cannot go to zero. 

[StackerCollector]

Sitting on about 20% gold 80% silver as silver does get consumed and demand will continue to increase (solar, medicine, etc.) And the silver price is far away from a  price where it is profitable to recycle from used electronic parts, etc.