Buying my first gold bar - looking for advice

[coalfield]

I am new to the forums as a result of looking to invest a small amount of money in my first gold purchase.  However I am totally clueless to this so looking for some newbie advice.

I am not interested in coins really, just gold and the value that they can hold (unless coins work out better value) - comments welcome on this as a stratergy.

After a bit of looking I am considering going for something like this: https://www.thegoldbullion.co.uk/buy-gold-bars/metalor-5g-gold-bar/ as looks to be an established website, certified and protected.  Based on the prices out there looks to be reasonable.

Welcome any advice if this is a reliable way to go, reputable website and good way to put a foot in the door.  Note I am not keen on buying second hand due to the lack of testing equiptment and such

[TheApe]

 

Gold bars are not exempt from CGT as with some UK Gold coins.

Gold bars generally have a lower premium than coins but at the weight you are looking at, premiums are stupidly high. I would suggest waiting until you can buy at least quarter of an ounce. Then I would consider sovereigns over bars.

For best prices on bars, check bairds mint. In my opinions if you are buying an ounce or less, go with coins. If you are buying large amounts of god, consider bars.

 

[Tn21]

Bullion by post 

Atkinson's 

Charda

Gold.co.uk

Hatton garden metals

Sharps pixley

Baird and co

 

 

Few sites above where you can shop arround and try and get the best price. Plenty more websites are out there too

 

 

[coalfield]

thanks for the advice @TheApe thats really helpful.  The bars being certified and sealed gives me some sense of security.  With the sovereigns how do I ensure they are the real deal, or does it just come down to place of purchase?

@Tn21 is that in any particular order, and do you (or others) rate thegoldbullion.co.uk at all?  Their prices seemed slightly better than bullion by post?

Also if I were able to go up to 1/2 oz any specific recommendations?

[TheApe]

2 minutes ago, coalfield said:

thanks for the advice @TheApe thats really helpful.  The bars being certified and sealed gives me some sense of security.  With the sovereigns how do I ensure they are the real deal, or does it just come down to place of purchase?

@Tn21 is that in any particular order, and do you (or others) rate thegoldbullion.co.uk at all?  Their prices seemed slightly better than bullion by post?

Also if I were able to go up to 1/2 oz any specific recommendations?

If you are buying from a reliable dealer like Bairds, you have little to worry about coin\bar being a fake.

Anyway, in the Bullion world, these sealed Gold bars are generally the most likely to be faked.

[Robda1986]

BBP have a reasonable deal on gold standard coins if your budget can stretch to a 1/4 oz at a time works out slightly cheaper per gram than the bar your looking at

[Tn21]

@coalfield 

In no particular order is the answer to your question. Bullion by post tend to be a bit pricy but they do have occasional good deal like the one mentioned above. 

Go through all of them and you can see the price difference for the same product

[Melon]

2 hours ago, coalfield said:

The bars being certified and sealed gives me some sense of security.  With the sovereigns how do I ensure they are the real deal, or does it just come down to place of purchase?

Slow down, take your time, don't rush the first purchase. 

Bars being sealed with a certificate is zero comfort of the bar being genuine. They are often faked. If I can create a fake gold bar I can certainly fake a piece of cardboard. Buying from reputable sources and doing your own checks on receipt is the way to go. 

Buying from reputable sources is a good idea. Buying 5g bars at like 18% premium is nuts. Don't do that! 

With gold you should be working out the premium price on the object (the % over spot) and aiming for the lowest possible premium. Check out the gold deals thread sticky at the top for loads of examples. There's definite better deals than this right now, WAY better! 

[coalfield]

thanks for all the advice appreciated I will take some time to look into it

[coalfield]

Whats the best way to work out the % over spot?

[Melon]

23 minutes ago, coalfield said:

Whats the best way to work out the % over spot?

It's quite easy once you know how. I've broken it down into steps. 

1. Grab the current spot price in grams off Google, this changes all the time. There's a million places to get this, but I personally like this website as it shows the spot price in troy ounce and grams for gold/silver/platinum in three currencies: https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-price/gold-price-uk/ 
2. Multiply the spot price in grams you just found by the pure gold content grams in the item you're considering. So if the item is 5 grams, you'd multiply the gold price by 5. You now have the spot value of the item. (TOP TIP - if the item is 999 gold then the weight and gold content are the same, if it's less than 999 gold (i.e. a Krugerrand) you'll have to work out the fine gold content or it's often listed on the sales page) 
3. Now take the price you're being charged (including the shipping cost) for the item and divide it by the spot price you worked out in step 2. You'll end up with a number greater than 1. Deduct 1 and you're left with the premium percentage, i.e. 1.15 = 15% premium. 

Example

STEP 1: Gold price now per gram = £42.769 

STEP 2: Spot price value of the 5 gram bar you were looking at = £42.769 x 5 = £213.85 

STEP 3: Price you're being charged divided by spot price value = £253.82 / £213.85 = 1.187 

Now deduct the 1 and you're left with your final premium of 18.7%

[Melon]

Also this site that @Darr3nG created is very useful in showing premium over spot for a bunch of common items from well know dealers. It won't show everything, but it's a useful tool for scanning the kind of premiums available and certainly you can see on there that 18.7% doesn't look very attractive! 

http://goldprice.eu5.net/

[Prophecy]

35 minutes ago, coalfield said:

Whats the best way to work out the % over spot?

((price / weight of pure within) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

[coalfield]

Thanks @Melon @Prophecy - looking at the deals post I see saw this within budget:

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/proof-sets/proof-sovereigns/2018-gold-piedfort-proof-sovereign-elizabeth-ii-5th-head-boxed/

I work it out based on the above at 21.46% above spot, however there is a nice case and certificate etc would this be a worthwhile first dabble?

 

[Melon]

3 minutes ago, coalfield said:

Thanks @Melon @Prophecy - looking at the deals post I see saw this within budget:

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/proof-sets/proof-sovereigns/2018-gold-piedfort-proof-sovereign-elizabeth-ii-5th-head-boxed/

I work it out based on the above at 18.3% above spot, however there is a nice case and certificate etc would this be a worthwhile first dabble?

 

Depends what you're looking for. Your first post you mention you're primarily interested in weight, in which case I wouldn't buy this. This coin is a collectable with numismatic value, but others are better qualified than me to talk about that. 

Also bear in mind new deals pop up daily, so if the right thing at the right price isn't available right now then it may pay off to be patient. I know that's tough once you have the itch to buy though! 

Often folk who want weight at good prices will focus on Sovereigns or 1oz coins. Sovereigns contain 7.32 grams of gold, are recognised worldwide, very liquid and can be obtained at low premiums. A great place to start. 

[coalfield]

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/small-britannias/14oz-britannia-year/2020-quarter-ounce-gold-standard-25-coin/

This actually works out to be 8.92% over spot, which looks to be a reasonable rate?

[HerefordBullyun]

Why dont you check this website http://goldprice.eu5.net/

although its for coins they do sell bars. I have found BBP the more expensive of dealers.

[coalfield]

3 hours ago, Prophecy said:

((price / weight of pure within) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

https://www.thegoldbullion.co.uk/buy-gold-coins/buy-gold-sovereigns/2018-gold-sovereign/

This works out to be 0.07% below spot if my maths is right, I am guessing its becuase its 22ct?

Am I correct in saying:

(((price / weight of pure within)*(carat /24) - spot price ) / spot price x 100)

 

 

 

[coalfield]

are you able to share referral codes on this forum as looking for one from https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk

If this is not allowed my apologies!

[silverback19]

56 minutes ago, coalfield said:

https://www.thegoldbullion.co.uk/buy-gold-coins/buy-gold-sovereigns/2018-gold-sovereign/

This works out to be 0.07% below spot if my maths is right, I am guessing its becuase its 22ct?

Am I correct in saying:

(((price / weight of pure within)*(carat /24) - spot price ) / spot price x 100)

 

 

 

the best price sovereign i have found is on Atkinson bullion for just over 7% above spot pretty good deal plus they ship within 3-5 days. a lot faster than other dealers at the moment

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/sovereign-gold-coins-(1)/2020-uk-full-sovereign-gold-coin

[Prophecy]

2 hours ago, coalfield said:

((price / weight of pure within) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

Calculating the premium of a sovereign would be:

((price / 0.23542 ozt) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

or

((price / (0.2568217711 ozt x 0.9167)) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

 

Total weight multiplications to find pure gold weigh from carats:

9k is weight x 0.375

10k is weight x 0.4167

12k is weight x 0.5

14k is weight x 0.5833

18k is weight x 0.75

22k is weight x 0.9167 (e.g. sovereign)

23k is weight x 0.9583

24k is weight x 0.999 (24k is minimum this decimal, so that makes LBMA Good Delivery bars NOT 24k )

 

BLOODY SOVEREIGN WEIGHTS

edit. corrected error showing 23k as 24k...!

[TheApe]

3 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

For sovs it would be:

((price / 0.23542 ozt) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

or

((price / (0.2568217711 ozt x 0.9167)) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

 

Total weight multiplications to find pure gold weight:

9k is weight x 0.375

10k is weight x 0.4167

12k is weight x 0.5

14k is weight x 0.5833

18k is weight x 0.75

22k is weight x 0.9167 (e.g. sovereign)

24k is weight x 0.9583 (24k is minimum this decimal)

 

BLOODY SOVEREIGN WEIGHTS

Talk about over complicating things Prophecy 🤣
OP, the coin spec will show the Gold weight, you wont need to calculate.

[Prophecy]

42 minutes ago, silverback19 said:

the best price sovereign i have found is on Atkinson bullion for just over 7% above spot pretty good deal plus they ship within 3-5 days. a lot faster than other dealers at the moment

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/sovereign-gold-coins-(1)/2020-uk-full-sovereign-gold-coin

You're checking http://goldprice.eu5.net/ no?

[silverback19]

no @Prophecy was just browsing, looking for deals, sweet for the link i have never used that before, i was only looking at 2020 sovereign specifically, top 3 cheapest dealers on that link all charge postage fees so, thought Atkinson's would have been the better deal as its free over £180, and shouldn't have to wait to long to receive order. 

[coalfield]

54 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

Calculating the premium of a sovereign would be:

((price / 0.23542 ozt) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

or

((price / (0.2568217711 ozt x 0.9167)) - spot price ) / spot price x 100

 

Total weight multiplications to find pure gold weigh from carats:

9k is weight x 0.375

10k is weight x 0.4167

12k is weight x 0.5

14k is weight x 0.5833

18k is weight x 0.75

22k is weight x 0.9167 (e.g. sovereign)

24k is weight x 0.9583 (24k is minimum this decimal)

 

BLOODY SOVEREIGN WEIGHTS

Thanks... All makes sense apart from the 24K.  So 24K is not 100% or even 99.9%?