Proof Like Fields on a Sovereign | How?

[1817Karl]

I recently graded an 1825 Sovereign (with proof like fields) and it came back after conservation and grading as a MS60 and after conservation the fields look even more proof like.

 

So I started researching how proof like fields on Sovereigns come about. 

I couldn’t find much information except that sometimes proof dies could have been used on currency coins (maybe at the end of a proof run – so as not to waste the dies?) and that early strikes of Sovereigns (with new dies) might produce proof like coins?

I’m not sure if either scenario is right and wondered if anyone could shed any light on the subject or point me in the right direction for further reading?

As always, I appreciate thoughts / knowledge or just relevant information from members so I can better understand the subject...

Thanks for reading. Karl

[ChrisSilver]

Nice coin! Thanks for sharing. 

I can't answer your question but I am sure some of the other members can  the quality on modern bullion sovereigns is absolutely terrible compared to older sovereigns, I think it is a real shame that the mint do not maintain a high quality on their bullion coins (this goes for a lot of Royal Mint's bullion coins, IMO the quality and detail of the strike is very low, especially when you compare it to bullion products of other mints like the Perth Mint) 

I guess the Royal Mint save their quality work for their proof coins, but it is a shame that the quality of sovereigns is not as good as it used to be. Also interested to know the answer to your question in regards to bullion sovereign coins with proof like finishes  

[shawy2510]

Very prooflike indeed & most likely 1 of the 1st MS coins minted with good dies. Would say its a 60/61 grade

[Auricsstash]

Can’t help with your questions but wow what a thing of beauty!!

[Stuntman]

If the blanks have been very well prepared, and the dies are brand new, the coin will be very sharply struck and will have very clean, prooflike, fields.  You see it reasonably often on 19th centrury predecimal coins, some of the 1887 Victoria golden jubilee issues in particular.

Much of the coinage of George IV (1820-1830) was particularly well-made, look at the shillings and halfcrowns of that era.  Also the farthings, halfpennies and pennies!

Lovely looking sovereign 😍😍😍

[1817Karl]

3 hours ago, ChrisSilver said:

Nice coin! Thanks for sharing. 

I can't answer your question but I am sure some of the other members can  the quality on modern bullion sovereigns is absolutely terrible compared to older sovereigns, I think it is a real shame that the mint do not maintain a high quality on their bullion coins (this goes for a lot of Royal Mint's bullion coins, IMO the quality and detail of the strike is very low, especially when you compare it to bullion products of other mints like the Perth Mint) 

I guess the Royal Mint save their quality work for their proof coins, but it is a shame that the quality of sovereigns is not as good as it used to be. Also interested to know the answer to your question in regards to bullion sovereign coins with proof like finishes  

Chris. I'll update the thread when I know more. 

[dicker]

Hi Karl

I collect Morgan Dollars and there is a similar effect where the coins are sometimes (but infrequently) graded as DMPL / PL.

When I was last in the US and buying, the dealer was of the belief that these coins are the very first coins that are struck from a new die after it has been replicated from the master hub and polished.  
 

He also thought the very best examples may have been double struck when a new die had been installed and was being “bedded in” but he was less sure about that.  
 

Perhaps similar for your example?

Best

Dicker

[1817Karl]

7 hours ago, dicker said:

Hi Karl

I collect Morgan Dollars and there is a similar effect where the coins are sometimes (but infrequently) graded as DMPL / PL.

When I was last in the US and buying, the dealer was of the belief that these coins are the very first coins that are struck from a new die after it has been replicated from the master hub and polished.  
 

He also thought the very best examples may have been double struck when a new die had been installed and was being “bedded in” but he was less sure about that.  
 

Perhaps similar for your example?

Best

Dicker

Hi Dicker. Yes that sounds familiar, I have read that in some of the meterial I have read, along with the proof dies being used on currency coins. 

[1817Karl]

Topic update, it seems that proof dies were not used this early on currency coins, so most likely explanation is as discussed previously, new dies used that have been greased and or polished to aid the bedding in process. These are likely to produce proof like coins on the early minted coins (with these new dies)

[sovereignsteve]

I'm not so sure.

The information about proof-like Morgan dollars in the literature suggests they are most likely to occur when the metal strips being prepared for cutting into discs/blanks are polished to a degree. I find this explanation more likely as it's hard to envisage a proof like finish resulting from using proof dies if the blanks aren't already polished to a degree.

[dicker]

Thanks @sovereignstevethat makes sense.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you see this - if in a book, I would like to get hold of it!

Best

Dicker

 

[sovereignsteve]

1 hour ago, dicker said:

Thanks @sovereignstevethat makes sense.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you see this - if in a book, I would like to get hold of it!

Best

Dicker

 

I have seen this mentioned online and it is certainly mentioned in the book I have.

The Official Red Book. A Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars by Q. David Bowers

[dicker]

Many thanks one I will definitely get.

 

Many thanks

Dicker