Is Silver The “Poor Man’s Gold”?

[musketsmoke]

there is just as much gold as silver

99% of the gold is buried back underground by governments and very wealthy people 

creating the over inflated price for it 

[SILVERFINGER]

My Sony headphones have a gold plated jack plug

[RacerCool]

3 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

by comparison silver is a rubbish metal.

they are constantly trying to find new uses for

it because supply constantly outstrips demand.

gold on the other hand people are constantly

trying to find ways of replacing using other

metals etc. there's not enough gold to go around

for the items that people want to make using

gold.

things like gold plating is not there just to look

pretty. electronics have gold plated surfaces to

provide better contact surfaces. gold plating on

items in general provide a layer of protection for

the underlying metal(against corrosion).

gold is extremely malleable. you can make gold

wire that are 5 microns thick.

https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/gold/incomparable-gold/gold-properties

 

gold has properties that allow it to solve problems

that are unimaginable using other metals.

 

where silver beats gold it's only a small win. eg

30-50% more conductive.  where gold beats

silver it's done decisively. eg doesn't tarnish at

all when exposed to water or air.

 

HH

I wasn't trying to make this a competition, but instead to highlight why these precious metals are precious, in particular silver. Gold is of course precious and beautiful. But silver isn't a rubbish metal; not sure why you want to make it out to be that.  Sure it's not gold, but gold isn't silver, either.  They both have their unique properties (as do all metals, really) and uses.  And for their specific unique properties, you can't replace one with the other.  Supply really isn't the issue unless you want tons of it and can't get tons of it.  My point is that it's the usefulness that matters.  I have yet to hear of anyone wanting tons of gold for anything other than to hoard.  Nobody wants tons of anything other than to hoard it.  (maybe I'm wrong on that last part, but practical reality makes tons of anything undesirable)

Mirrors of gold, well that's a specialty application, apparently used only because they don't want the tarnishing that silver can experience, not because it's superior in that application.  It isn't.  Silver is still your best material for a mirror, both in the visible and infrared spectrum.

Something being 30-50% more conducive isn't a small win.  That's a huge difference.  Again, not sure why this has to have one be overwhelmingly superior, while the other one is reduced to rubbish.  Silver isn't even rubbish by comparison to gold.  It's just not as expensive or as rare.  Both are precious metals, and if silver wasn't, it would be right down there with tin and aluminum as "base metals" (though still useful). 

On the other hand, you won't ever use silver or copper to replace gold as a non-corrosive plating.  You can't because those two will corrode, where gold won't, as you pointed out.

And if they're continually finding uses for gold, then that's a good thing.  But I think the key point here is that it won't ever replace silver where silver is best.  For that matter, neither will it ever replace copper where copper is best.  Or if it does, it'll be because of cost-effectiveness, not because of superior properties, by a fair comparison.

1 hour ago, TonyS said:

I am a retired electrical engineer.

I’ve used copper, silver and platinum in chemical analysis, never gold.

Copper for normal conductors.

Silver for high conductivity.

Platinum was for reaction crucibles.

In my industry we use gold for certain specific uses as well.  (medical products)  Silver and copper aren't used as much as other metal alloys, since those two metals don't have the properties needed for those specific applications.

[RacerCool]

1 hour ago, musketsmoke said:

there is just as much gold as silver

99% of the gold is buried back underground by governments and very wealthy people 

creating the over inflated price for it 

More specifically, it's probably buried in their underground vaults.

[HawkHybrid]

1 hour ago, RacerCool said:

Mirrors of gold, well that's a specialty application, apparently used only because they don't want the tarnishing that silver can experience, not because it's superior in that application.  It isn't.  Silver is still your best material for a mirror, both in the visible and infrared spectrum.

gold can and will be used to replace silver.

(not tarnishing when exposed is a big thing

for mirrors. there are practicalities when

choosing the metal. sheer reflective and

conductive is only part of the criteria)

1 hour ago, RacerCool said:

On the other hand, you won't ever use silver or copper to replace gold as a non-corrosive plating.  You can't because those two will corrode, where gold won't, as you pointed out.

in certain applications silver cannot be used to

replace gold.

 

gold is more versatile than silver.

 

I'm not rubbishing silver. I'm saying the facts

as I see it. silver is so much inferior to gold

that there is no real comparison. silver is not

the poor mans gold. if it wasn't for industry

the silver price would collapse. over the last 5

decades the gsr have been rising on average. silver

seems to be losing it's battle to remain a precious

metal. time will tell if it joins the likes of tin and

aluminium.

no one hoards silver because it's an absolute pain

to do so. it's not good enough as a precious metal

to hoard.

 

HH

[RacerCool]

3 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

gold can and will be used to replace silver.

(not tarnishing when exposed is a big thing

for mirrors. there are practicalities when

choosing the metal. sheer reflective and

conductive is only part of the criteria)

in certain applications silver cannot be used to

replace gold.

 

gold is more versatile than silver.

 

I'm not rubbishing silver. I'm saying the facts

as I see it. silver is so much inferior to gold

that there is no real comparison. silver is not

the poor mans gold. if it wasn't for industry

the silver price would collapse. over the last 5

decades the gsr have been rising on average. silver

seems to be losing it's battle to remain a precious

metal. time will tell if it joins the likes of tin and

aluminium.

no one hoards silver because it's an absolute pain

to do so. it's not good enough as a precious metal

to hoard.

 

HH

I totally agree on the stacking of silver.  You can only acquire so much before it becomes physically too much.  As for its monetary value, history disagrees with you, and so does present day.  It is still considered valuable as a store of wealth.  The reasons for stacking silver vary, but mine are for "just in case" the economy radically changes, and silver again becomes currency.  Even so, gold is the preferred metal to stack as a means of storing wealth, and probably always will be.  But that doesn't eliminate silver.  It just means that silver is the means of storing smaller monetary value, where gold is the means of storing larger monetary value.  That has always been the case, as far as I can tell, and it still is today. 

The GSR...I don't know that any of us really know why the GSR has increased as much as it has in recent years.  The theory that makes the most sense to me is that it's being manipulated in some way, and that the current huge ratio is unnatural.  But with that, only time will tell what's really going on.  Banks and nations are still buying and storing silver, not just gold, and so are the people.  So something fishy is happening, in my opinion.

As for gold being more versatile, I can't agree there.  At least not as far I understand things.  They both have their uses, as already mentioned.  But I still don't see gold as being more versatile than silver.

The idea of gold replacing silver in mirrors doesn't mean gold is better for it.  The properties of the two metals don't change.  And gold's applications as a replacement for silver, where silver would otherwise be ideal, is, again, only situation-specific.  It's not because it's necessarily a superior metal.  If you want the best reflector or conductor, you go with silver, period. There has to be a good reason to replace it with gold, not just "because gold is better".  That doesn't make sense. If you want anti-microbial properties, ideally you go with copper (preferred), or silver (more situation-specific, must be wet).  You would never go with gold.

Is that making sense?  You don't replace them with gold just because you think gold is better or more valuable.

As for silver's future value, well, i don't see it changing as being a precious metal.  Nor do I see it becoming less useful in industry.  However, it is possible that gold will increase in its industrial usefulness.  But time will tell.

[HawkHybrid]

44 minutes ago, RacerCool said:

As for its monetary value, history disagrees with you, and so does present day.  It is still considered valuable as a store of wealth.

people say the word salary comes from a word for

salt. historically salt was important and valuable.

where is salt now? can silver go the way of salt?

(salt hasn't lost any of it's ability to flavour and

preserve)

47 minutes ago, RacerCool said:

The theory that makes the most sense to me is that it's being manipulated in some way, and that the current huge ratio is unnatural.

copper was used as money for smaller denominations

than silver. where is copper now? why is it so

inconceivable that silver is following the way of

copper? silver being suppressed makes no sense.

it is silver that is in niche markets.

 

if you think for one moment that silver is no

longer valuable like it used to be then everything

makes sense, no conspiracy theories required.

the simplest answer is usually close to the correct

one.

 

HH

[RacerCool]

42 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

people say the word salary comes from a word for

salt. historically salt was important and valuable.

where is salt now? can silver go the way of salt?

(salt hasn't lost any of it's ability to flavour and

preserve)

copper was used as money for smaller denominations

than silver. where is copper now? why is it so

inconceivable that silver is following the way of

copper? silver being suppressed makes no sense.

it is silver that is in niche markets.

 

if you think for one moment that silver is no

longer valuable like it used to be then everything

makes sense, no conspiracy theories required.

the simplest answer is usually close to the correct

one.

 

HH

Salt is still very valuable today, and for the same reasons.  We just don't use it to pay wages anymore.  And silver was also used to pay wages, even at that time.  But even then they were used for different practical reasons, even if they were at times both used as payment.  But if you want to look at silver's value and use over time, it's even more useful today than it was back then.  So we can say that its value has only increased over time, even if today's GSR is wider.  Will that wide gap continue into the future?  Who knows.  And yeah, there is something fishy about it, though what sort of conspiracy it might be is beyond the scope of this discussion.  Furthermore, many conspiracies are true.  They're not all just some lunatic fantasy.

I don't see us reaching any sort of agreement here.  We're just looking at things from different perspectives, I guess.  Bottom line for me is that silver has its unique, very useful properties, and still has value as money.  You see it otherwise.

[Oldun]

On 06/10/2019 at 02:41, Serendipity said:

Due to its lower price as compared to gold, silver in India is frequently called “gold’s little brother,” “poor man’s gold,” and the “common man’s metal.” Please feel free to comment whether you agree or disagree with this perception of the white metal.

Gold is for wealth preservation. Silver is for barter.

[RacerCool]

38 minutes ago, Oldun said:

Gold is for wealth preservation. Silver is for barter.

That's a fair way to understand it. 

[Notafront4adragon]

5 hours ago, RacerCool said:

Salt is still very valuable today, and for the same reasons.  We just don't use it to pay wages anymore.  Furthermore, many conspiracies are true. 

Salt isn't valuable at all today not even a little bit. It's so ridiculously cheap we can put it in everything now. $60 for a metric tonne....

Your theory about conspiracies theorys mostly being true. It sounds fishy. I think it's a conspiracy that you claim conspiracy theories are true. You're conspiracing to hide the truth that the conspiracy theories are a conspiracy. 

 

[SILVERFINGER]

Semen is one of the most expensive commodities today, top quality bull, racehorses etc, if anyone wants to swap some silver for some let me know 

[Roy]

You hold semen? 

Where do you store it?

😳

[SILVERFINGER]

Just now, Roy said:

You hold semen? 

Where do you store it?

😳

Where do you store yours 

[Roy]

Next to the milk. 

 

[SILVERFINGER]

2 minutes ago, Roy said:

Next to the milk. 

 

I aint coming for a cuppa at yours, you might make a mistake 

[RacerCool]

7 hours ago, Notafront4adragon said:

Salt isn't valuable at all today not even a little bit. It's so ridiculously cheap we can put it in everything now. $60 for a metric tonne....

Your theory about conspiracies theorys mostly being true. It sounds fishy. I think it's a conspiracy that you claim conspiracy theories are true. You're conspiracing to hide the truth that the conspiracy theories are a conspiracy. 

 

When I say salt is valuable, I mean it's very useful, and for the same reasons it has always been useful.

As for conspiracies, I said many, not most. They're not the same. If someone gets caught lying about things more than once or twice, there's a good chance they're lying about many things. But if you don't KNOW about absolutely everything, then you can reasonably say "many".

Let's not lose the ability to understand and distinguish the nuance of things. Not everything can or should be summarized in a black-and-white 30 second sound bite, or bumper sticker. 

[HawkHybrid]

7 minutes ago, RacerCool said:

When I say salt is valuable, I mean it's very useful, and for the same reasons it has always been useful.

 

your're talking theory.

I'm saying that salt as priced in currency has gone

down dramatically since the times in history when

it's impact was more significant.

(you can look up the data, it is believed that people

might have been partially paid in salt. if someone

was paid partially in salt today, deep pockets aren't

enough for them to take home their pay.)

 

salt is more accessible and is used in more things

now than it was historically. it's price is a fraction of

what it was historically. it is a natural cycle. the more

we practice at things the better we should get. we're

now really good at extracting surplus salt from our

surroundings. I'm saying the same trend may have

started for silver.

 

HH

[CadmiumGreen]

8 hours ago, RacerCool said:

Not everything can or should be summarized in a black-and-white 30 second sound bite

Trumps tweets do. 😁 Sorry, just an itsy little crack in that door left open...couldn’t resist! 😆

[RacerCool]

4 minutes ago, CadmiumGreen said:

Trumps tweets do. 😁 Sorry, just an itsy little crack in that door left open...couldn’t resist! 😆

Yep, and those are just one more thing for me to NOT pay attention to. 😎

[StackemHigh]

Hell yeah! Silver is the poor mans gold! no question about it. It's a price thing manipulated or not.