Harrington & Byrne 2019 400th Anniversary Gold Proof Quarter Laurel

[Nortypeter]

as  above.

H & B have sent out ( to myself anyway ) an offer leaflet of this coin for £100 off its listed price of £189 on their website to £89.00.inc postage.its a 2Gram coin so around 25% over spot at this offer price,and limited edition to 3000 coins. looks a nice little coin, so I have ordered mine anyway.

see image below however I have cut bottom of form off,as it has my personal details

what you say about its collectability and offer value?.

[goldmember44]

For that price you probably can't go wrong. Not really my cup of tea, and it's tiny... but then again, less than £100 for essentially a proof quarter sovereign-type coin. 

[BackyardBullion]

I am going to be cynical here.....

In the not too distant future it will be worth spot price at best 😞

1.83g fine gold in there so worth about £66 and that works out to be about 35% premium over spot price. 

Harrington and Byrne are akin to many other companies like the London Mint office....you can see a very interesting feature on them from Rip Off Britain when a poor chap nearly lost a lot of money "investing" in their coins. 

It speaks volumes that the BBC programme managed to convince the london mint office to refund this chap all of his historic purchases!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0499cj9/player

[goldmember44]

Fair enough... we did, however, milk H&B nicely in recent months with 2019 bullion sovereigns for £224... so I think they're not as nasty as the "London Mint Office". But I would agree most of their items are priced extortionately.

[Nortypeter]

4 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I am going to be cynical here.....

In the not too distant future it will be worth spot price at best 😞

1.83g fine gold in there so worth about £66 and that works out to be about 35% premium over spot price. 

Harrington and Byrne are akin to many other companies like the London Mint office....you can see a very interesting feature on them from Rip Off Britain when a poor chap nearly lost a lot of money "investing" in their coins. 

It speaks volumes that the BBC programme managed to convince the london mint office to refund this chap all of his historic purchases!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0499cj9/player

I think you are being quite a bit more than cynical here.

to start with,there are hundreds of collectors here of 1oz silver coins,which are produced in their hundreds of millions.even on this website these basic coins are being bought at £14-16 and more.the silver value right now is hovering at £12.00 oz,that is what some 30% + over spot and many 'silly uneducated 'poor' ;people buying these same coins at £20+ on ebay and reputable websites.are you just as cynical about these people buying them too.and then you come to the 'handmade' 1oz.2oz.5oz slabs of silver,selling at premiums of 100% + over spot.are you just as cynical about the producers.makers of those people who are selling on here,are they a rip off seller too.and what is the likleyhood of any of those and myself ever getting anything over spot in the future.or is their something I am missing about these special slabs of silver and these billions of 1oz etc coins we collect.are we all just deluded and ripping each other off

and as for the 'poor' chap who nearly got ripped off.Did he really get ripped off,did the company involved do anything illegal.was the poor guy just not educated enough and inexperienced when it comes to 'Mark-up' of some items.jewellers for instance can and do mark up silver,gold,platinum jewellery many hundreds %,and that is the way it has been for a century plus.as soon as you have bought that item it depreciates to pretty much its metal value.

I myself am investing long term future, when hopefully precious metal value will appreciate to something more than inflation,i buy only near to spot as possible,buy what I actually like as well,thats my gamble,fingees crossed.

 

[Nortypeter]

19 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

Fair enough... we did, however, milk H&B nicely in recent months with 2019 bullion sovereigns for £224... so I think they're not as nasty as the "London Mint Office". But I would agree most of their items are priced extortionately.

I completely agree,however this particular coin the quarter laurel is,i think,a collectable 2gm coin. at this offer price.and the premium % is no more than many of us are buying most 1oz silver bullion coins for.

 

[HighlandTiger]

21 minutes ago, Nortypeter said:

then you come to the 'handmade' 1oz.2oz.5oz slabs of silver,selling at premiums of 100% + over spot.are you just as cynical about the producers.makers of those people who are selling on here,are they a rip off seller too.and what is the likleyhood of any of those and myself ever getting anything over spot in the future.or is their something I am missing about these special slabs of silver and these billions of 1oz etc coins we collect.are we all just deluded and ripping each other off

I can't disagree there .......!

[BackyardBullion]

@Nortypeter

I am not shy of a gamble on high premium pieces. But the reputation of these companies stands totally against them for the potential of their coins to make a high appreciation and profit is the point I am trying to make.

You asked for opinions on the collectability and offer price of this coin and I shared my opinion, I suspect that like the vast majority of others they would rather buy something else.

That said, I wish you and anyone who buys these all the best with the coin and I hope my cynicism is hung out to dry if this coin makes you money beyond the value of it's gold content!

[HawkHybrid]

27 minutes ago, Nortypeter said:

I myself am investing long term future, when hopefully precious metal value will appreciate to something more than inflation,i buy only near to spot as possible,buy what I actually like as well,thats my gamble,fingees crossed.

 

investment money(needing to provide a return) is

very different from disposable income(buy what

you like).

bullion sovereigns at less than 5% over spot is

much closer to spot.

gold and silver coins are very different, and the

comparison you've used is not comparing like with

like.

if you like it then buy it. but you shouldn't assume

that it will provide an investment return. fingers

crossed is not a valid investment strategy that is

widely accepted 

collectability is an art and can be extremely complex.

 

HH

[Nortypeter]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

@Nortypeter

I am not shy of a gamble on high premium pieces. But the reputation of these companies stands totally against them for the potential of their coins to make a high appreciation and profit is the point I am trying to make.

You asked for opinions on the collectability and offer price of this coin and I shared my opinion, I suspect that like the vast majority of others they would rather buy something else.

That said, I wish you and anyone who buys these all the best with the coin and I hope my cynicism is hung out to dry if this coin makes you money beyond the value of it's gold content!

Thankyou for this.

I honestly feel that precious metal prices will increase dramatically in the longer term.over recent years many p/m producers are getting in on the manufacture of these smaller coins 2gm,3gm.because they are affordable and longer term I suspect that they will be the only new coins that are affordable.this particular coin I am writing about is a good value compared to most 3g gold coins and 4g sovereigns,produced by leading gold bullion coin makers.and it is a limited edition and will likely sell out.if it beats inflation,that is good.as for all my 1oz 2oz coins and bars,i can only hope they do too.

what I really doubt is the sanity of the people that buy slabs of silver at £26.00 oz +, 260%+ over spot price,expecting their slabs to be a long term investment,over anything over spot.but like many on here,im quite sure they too would rather buy near to spot as possible.that said I do really hope for their financial future sake that these slabs appreciate well too.the enjoyment of collecting is the best value.

[Kman]

If the aim is to buy things you like, sure go ahead it's nice enough

If the aim is to have something more valuable in the future, absolutely not, @BackyardBullion is right, it's tat

 

 

 

[Coolsmp]

Always diversify any portfolio investment. Dont just stick with precious metals, have a mixture of other things to spread risk.

[greendragon]

try a google image search for Tristan da cunha 2 gram gold coin.

another well known producer of collectable coins

dozens of different designs to collect , 

and a few years after production they are worth spot price.

my opinion is that it takes more than a low mintage to make something collectable.

 

[Nortypeter]

15 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

investment money(needing to provide a return) is

very different from disposable income(buy what

you like).

bullion sovereigns at less than 5% over spot is

much closer to spot.

gold and silver coins are very different, and the

comparison you've used is not comparing like with

like.

if you like it then buy it. but you shouldn't assume

that it will provide an investment return. fingers

crossed is not a valid investment strategy that is

widely accepted 

collectability is an art and can be extremely complex.

 

HH

Ok.I do agree that silver and gold are different.not many gold coins and  bars of any size that I have seen with premiums of 260% + but lots of silver ones,made by artisans of course.gold coins and slabs have a much lower premium,new.some become collectable.investment in gold or silver has to be a skill,i accept that.and I agree in the whole what you have written above.no use to me at all,i am already clued up, but good advise for most,i suspect.

let me be more clear.i have a fairly large disposable income,where I could buy a nicer car,or more holidays,house etc,but I am comfotrablke right now.my car is fine and I have 3 holidays a year anyway.i have what I need and no desire to keep up with the jones.so my disposable income can be put into a savings acoount at my local bank where it will earn its 1.5% a year.or a could go risky into shares and maybe if im clued up I could get 5% + a year,maybe.or I could have lots of fun investing in small pcs of gold and silver.yes I have looked into the risks,and have realised for some long time that gold and silver are undervalued against the £,Dollar etc.and I believe P/Ms will rise above inflation.so my risk is investing my disposable income in something I will continue to enjoy doing.call it a hobby,im learning all the time and up till now made some 15 to 20% gains above inflation/current value against what I paid in past on my investment/disposable income/hobby of p/m buying..i still have my very first sovereign bought in 1976 for £25.00,a weeks wages then, I think I paid too much.its been an up and down ride.40 successful years in business,buying and selling at retail level,now retired and enjoying playing what I am good at, buying and selling and some holding on, is what I do.and I never ever assume anything.nor should anyone else.

[Mcgrimes]

I think the issue with coins like this is suppliers push them as a fantastic investment, coming close to guaranteeing eye watering returns. @BackyardBullion Doesn’t sell his products under false pretences and doesn’t ‘guarantee’ you’ll become a millionaire if you hold. 

I personally don’t see it attracting any numismatic value, and would be willing to pay spot + a few %. I think there are much better deals out the to be had. In fact, I’ll sell you any of my collection for spot + 30%  

I did see a 1/4 square sovereign a while back that was similar in premium and was very tempted. 

As others say, buy what you enjoy  

 

[Nortypeter]

39 minutes ago, Kman said:

 @BackyardBullion is right, it's tat

 

 

 

I don't think @BackyardBullion was suggesting it is tat.that is clearly your own opinion.which suggests to me that you may also believe that all cheap silver bullion coinage and bars is tat and might I say it all jewellery is tat too.all have massive % mark -ups.this little coin will at least realise its spot price in future,like most silver coinage and bars that most people are paying very high % premiums for.

it is though a pretty little thing that costs no more than any other 2gm gold coin minted,it is affordable and costs less than many more.none of them are really tat.

[Kman]

1 minute ago, Nortypeter said:

I don't think @BackyardBullion was suggesting it is tat.that is clearly your own opinion.which suggests to me that you may also believe that all cheap silver bullion coinage and bars is tat and might I say it all jewellery is tat too.all have massive % mark -ups.this little coin will at least realise its spot price in future,like most silver coinage and bars that most people are paying very high % premiums for.

it is though a pretty little thing that costs no more than any other 2gm gold coin minted,it is affordable and costs less than many more.none of them are really tat.

oh yes, just agreeing with him saying it will be worth spot in future

For me, it is commemorative tat

No one is forcing anyone to buy 2g of gold @ a premium, better to save up and get a half sovereign for a small premium or maybe close to spot if bought on here

I don't know why you're working so hard to convince people this was a good buy? do you work for the company that made it or selling it

It's tat, end of, it's fine, it's nothing personal against you, you don't need to be defensive of it. 

[BackyardBullion]

10 minutes ago, Nortypeter said:

I don't think @BackyardBullion was suggesting it is tat.that is clearly your own opinion.which suggests to me that you may also believe that all cheap silver bullion coinage and bars is tat and might I say it all jewellery is tat too.all have massive % mark -ups.this little coin will at least realise its spot price in future,like most silver coinage and bars that most people are paying very high % premiums for.

it is though a pretty little thing that costs no more than any other 2gm gold coin minted,it is affordable and costs less than many more.none of them are really tat.

I totally agree, it's not tat - it's an attractive coin! But as a collectable that will appreciate, not much chance, but everything has a chance. If it was at full price it would be be a very bad deal though.

I just want to quickly and politely address premiums on silver and the differences around this topic. Like others have said I don't attest that my silver, indeed all the premium items I make or sell or showcase on YouTube, are easy money makers. I am the first to say that if you are investing in these items you are investing in the maker, the brand and it's potential future. My products are investments in me, maybe they will just achieve spot price in the end, but maybe they will appreciate more.

The bottom line though is that H&B have a pretty shady reputation and I cannot think of any of their products that have actually appreciated in any way. 

So, aesthetically it's an attractive coin. Collectability it's a no go'er in my opinion.

[Nortypeter]

32 minutes ago, greendragon said:

try a google image search for Tristan da cunha 2 gram gold coin.

another well known producer of collectable coins

dozens of different designs to collect , 

and a few years after production they are worth spot price.

my opinion is that it takes more than a low mintage to make something collectable.

 

appreciate it if you could show me or link me to any that are mint proof,and at spot price.

 

seriously

[BackyardBullion]

2 minutes ago, Nortypeter said:

appreciate it if you could show me or link me to any that are mint proof,and at spot price.

 

seriously

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/sovereign-gold-coins/pre-owned-2017-tristan-da-cunha-quarter-sovereign

[Coolsmp]

And this is what akinsons would sell at so they would have paid a lot less from the original purchaser.

[BackyardBullion]

@Nortypeter

eBay sale in May this year, a 2016 one.

[BackyardBullion]

Found another one for less

 

[Nortypeter]

4 minutes ago, Kman said:

oh yes, just agreeing with him saying it will be worth spot in future

For me, it is commemorative tat

No one is forcing anyone to buy 2g of gold @ a premium, better to save up and get a half sovereign for a small premium or maybe close to spot if bought on here

I don't know why you're working so hard to convince people this was a good buy? do you work for the company that made it or selling it

It's tat, end of, it's fine, it's nothing personal against you, you don't need to be defensive of it. 

take a chill pill fella,your going to hurt yourself.

nowhere have a tried to convince anyone that this is a good buy.i have asked for opinions on its investment value and they have been given.some of the replies have made me feel slightly uncomfortable about the value of gold against silver when bought new.clearly most new gold coins have a lower premium over spot against silver.another point was that as this has a higher premium than most new gold coins,making it is a poor investment.but my investment strategy is log term belief that both gold and silver will rise well above inflation, long term and therefore almost all gold and silver bought now could be a good investment.one of my biggest niggles is the premium paid over spot for any silver coin or bar especially silver which has to rise dramatically in value to achieve spot prices.especially artisan produced 1ounce bars/slabs with massive 250% + mark ups over spot.nobody seems to mind this.and i apologise for the diversifying of this in this thread,it just happened.just a few weeks ago I was buying bullion half sovereigns on ebay for £120-£125.now they are mostly £150+.and this little coin could be above spot in just a few weeks anyway,probably less than a year.i am thinking longer term.so I will have paid to much above spot,but the gods favoured me.or call it luck.if it be.

I am not at all being defensive,i think it is clear that I have been putting up a fair response to most of the replies I have had.i have no links at all to H&B other than accumulating several of their £124 sovereigns and one little quarter laurel,that only I seem to like.

was it yourself that recently suggested that another member was affiliated with to a rip off company in Bournemouth,i cant remember without looking back through the threads.if it was you are doing it again.is that the best you have got,trying to rubbish my input.you have failed.the only thing that is tat is your responses here.total uneducated tat.nothing personal of course,and like I said before take a chill pill,have a nap.no need for the aggression.

[Nortypeter]

24 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/sovereign-gold-coins/pre-owned-2017-tristan-da-cunha-quarter-sovereign

that's no good,they have no stock.it is an old page.i want it now.