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Potentially Forged 1912 Full Sov


ilovesilverireallydo

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Acquired this on the forum recently and was amazed at the quality and lustre but was concerned about the colour. 

Got it xrf scanned, it’s 21.8 carat

going to rescan and get better readings later to know the full make up

B778C7DF-2698-4A31-9E95-4B3930ACEE8C.jpeg

06E95A88-54FE-430D-81D8-DDF047FC7B58.jpeg

8B4111B6-3F9A-4ACB-9C4C-3654BCB35E83.jpeg

C2497521-B65A-4789-BC2A-A1C07A4D95EE.jpeg

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1 minute ago, universalcurrency said:

Could you give some more details...  Eg does it have a strong copper tinge?

 Its difficult to make any judgement from the pics, perhaps if you could use daylight and turn of the flash or scan as you suggested.

Its certainly more copper in colour. Not using flash - but on the phone - will try get better pics in different lights

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54 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Next to a circulated 1904 to show why I was suspect, you can see the lustrous shine on the other

59A9E038-BEF1-499F-A6C2-D6EECB62ABB9.jpeg

As you say, the 1904 sovereign is worn - the 1912 one is in far better condition and looks to be lustrous. I think you would be very unlucky if the 1912 sovereign is a fake.

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If your scan showed almost 22 carat, it really shouldn't be enough difference to change the colour dramatically I think. To me it looks similar in colour to this other sov you compared it against... just better quality.

Some sovereign fakes actually contain more gold than an authentic sovereign. Some up to 95% gold instead of 91.6%.

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3 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

If your scan showed almost 22 carat, it really shouldn't be enough difference to change the colour dramatically I think. To me it looks similar in colour to this other sov you compared it against... just better quality.

Some sovereign fakes actually contain more gold than an authentic sovereign. Some up to 95% gold instead of 91.6%.

It’s definitely lower than 22ct. Everything else matches up. Going to look at details under a scope. 

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2 hours ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Acquired this on the forum recently and was amazed at the quality and lustre but was concerned about the colour. 

B778C7DF-2698-4A31-9E95-4B3930ACEE8C.jpeg

Colour can vary if this had a recent dip and be fairly yellowish.

i do not like the legend on the reverse: 4 o'clock filed away and 7 o'clock zero detail as with the young head Elizabeth sovereigns. It should really look uniform as from 11-3 o'clock. This is probably a minted copy but why they messed up the legend so badly is rather odd. 

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Just now, augur said:

Colour can vary if this had a recent dip and be fairly yellowish.

i do not like the legend on the reverse: 4 o'clock filed away and 7 o'clock zero detail as with the young head Elizabeth sovereigns. It should really look uniform as from 11-3 o'clock. This is probably a minted copy but why they messed up the legend so badly is rather odd. 

It’s actually copperish, and has shiny lustre like a new sov does, which is interesting, have t seen that on an old sov

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3 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

It’s actually copperish, and has shiny lustre like a new sov does, which is interesting, have t seen that on an old sov

Maybe they didn't pickle the planchets enough. It is getting scary! If they get the legend right and pickle the planchets a bit more than these (and other e.g. shield sovereigns) could fetch nice premiums for grade. 

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Hard to tell from a photo though as the camera might be removing detail during processing.

You should be able to tell from the lustre if it is struck as you only get the radial reflection of lustre as you turn a coin under the light from a struck coin afaik.

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There is a lot of detail on the hair moustache and  the ear looks wrong to me and the fields look not right for a coin with such detail that is over one hundred years old, ask sov steve

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I'm also a bit paranoid with buying a fake. I pray this one is a real one... 

Forgive me for asking, but did you measured and weighted the coin. if that is right, then I've thought the color might change over time. 

Please ignore this comment, if it's not relevant for you. But I'm interested to see what happens after final tests! 

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Could it be that this is a weak strike? The obverse seems to have a weak rim area exactly opposing. The filing could have been someone doing a scratch test, so maybe a nice uncirculated coin with a weakly struck rim?

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5 hours ago, augur said:

Could it be that this is a weak strike? The obverse seems to have a weak rim area exactly opposing. The filing could have been someone doing a scratch test, so maybe a nice uncirculated coin with a weakly struck rim?

 Maybe. Doesn’t account for the low XRF read though. 

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