Mrpound

Got this little belter all the way from the states for the low price of £30.39 all in 🥳

Got this little belter all the way from the states for the low price of £30.39 all in 🥳

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

I really do hope you get a refund as the bottom line is , it’s not a proof coin, that’s what you were sold that isn’t what you got 👎 it dose look proof like but not a proof, I wish you luck in getting a full refund 🙏

It's like this. I purchased lot 580 items from baldwin's auction 113.https://baldwins.co/en-GB/auction#/lots/e1b31e87-e97b-42a6-b845-768222b04315?department=BDW&lot_status=all&auction_uuid=5cec2514-7637-4f39-b576-3be0db39d6ad
The item is 1820 geroge IIII proof halfcrown.
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I'm digressing here. After I completed the payment, I waited until the payment deadline passed and found that I didn't receive the items. During this period, FEDEX can I went back and forth about 3 times. At that time, I logged into my account and found that the invoice said that I had not paid. I immediately wrote to inquire and sent other letters asking them to explain or take responsibility. The only letter I got was that the payment was completed and sent by the system. Of course, every letter I sent before the auction received an immediate reply. If you go to GOOGLE to read their comments, yes, the longest one was written by me
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Now back to the topic, this is my first time to come into contact with proof old coins. Of course, I have no experience, but I have asked them to take more detailed photos for me. I guess those should be real proofs. The first two photos are in the attachment.(The following was taken after I got the coins.) , and they have several coin experts, and it’s a large auction so it shouldn’t be wrong. At that time, I thought
OK, the coin came back from NGC. To be precise, I will receive it on Thursday, but the number is 6655103005 62
I confirm that it is my coin, but MS, in my understanding, MS and PF are the craftsmanship during casting and have nothing to do with wear and tear, etc. However, NGC gave MS
Now can I ask BALDWIN for a refund? Of course I have sent them letters, but I have a feeling they will ignore any letters from me again. Is my request reasonable? Because their terms seem to indicate that any of the descriptions are not there The scope of their responsibilities (of course I also deeply understand that they are not willing to take responsibility at all), whether such a clause can really exempt them from liability, because I read an article a while ago
https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/worlds-most-expensive-coin-fake-provenance-roman-eid-mar-1234659762/
They were caught falsifying sources and smuggling. It seems that the terms they describe are not exempt from liability. Should I call the police if they are unwilling to give any response?

A very nice coin, but sadly not a proof. A proof is struck to a much higher standard and on a different level altogether in terms of the details and the  surfaces.
It's night and day!

https://www.sovr.co.uk/products/george-iv-1821-proof-halfcrown-pf64-heavier-garnished-reverse-cm06336
 
They could have got away with saying prooflike as there is some fabulous lustre and field contrast there, but it's not a proof strike.
I would certainly be calling up Baldwins and returning for a full refund.
If they value their reputation they will do it immediately, no questions asked.

I have twice had auction houses misdescribe items. In the first instance it was also a specialist coin auction, describing a rare silver proof panda as "as struck" where it had hairlines all over it. The other was a local auction house. In both cases a refund was offered. Shockingly in the first instance they stood by their description that the coin was as struck but gave me a refund anyway. 

I also think so, but I have doubts since they mistakenly delayed and did not give me any reply, and after all, it took many months for NGC to come back.

It seems that I still need to learn more, because my eyes do look proof, and I even feel that the PF64 you posted is a bit cameo.

Two details to differentiate these - the details of the rose - lots of definition absent entirely from your circulation coin. Also look at the teeth - no border outside the teeth on the proof. 
A circulation coin showing cameo is common if it has had very little contact

So their own exemption clause is not really legal?

I don't know the answer to that. However, for me it is a wider question than strictly one of legality.
They surely aim to run an enduring business in which trust and expertise is a cornerstone. Mistakes happen in any business and if they put their hands up and make it right this is no issue. It's the metric by which I judge any business - how they handle issues. It might incur a small loss on their part to put it right. But if they dig their heels in and refuse a refund, and thousands of people (prospective buyers and sellers) on the internet find out about it the cost to their business will be far higher.
So regardless of the time it takes after the auction for the issue to come to light they should put you right. Everyone knows that NGC typically take 3-4 months to grade a coin and this shouldn't have a bearing on the outcome.
I have seen this exemption phrase in the Ts and Cs of many auctions so it probably is legal but they will be using it more as a disclaimer to protect themselves against bad actors, than a worked policy.

ok i have sent email to their   Abigail Delgado(Auction Manager, Coins)    Jordan Connelle(Head of Auctions Operations) &  the customer service mailbox still have no reply after 4 hours. i ready email to 
Neil Paisley(Managing Director, Coins)

About a third of this price

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

That's a good return on your investments! 

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

Nice haul today 😬 Atkinson spot price silver and two nice grade barber quarters 🤤

So I only grade coins when I’ve purposely bought them for a price where if they grade slightly less than I expected I still cover my money, it’s tricky and gamble some times but for example recently I bought a USA mercury dime for £1.50 and graded for £28 and the guide price was £125, so realistically could get £100 for it, but doesn’t always work that way 🤣