Buying PMs using crypto

[ccfcpaul]

Hey all.

Looking to buy some silver Britannia's/British coins. Reputable sellers only from the UK.

50-100. Paid for with Ethereum. 

[Spectre77]

Maybe check my posts? 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

It's always been a pain in the arse and it's gotten progressively worse. You can't buy without KYC/AML in the UK and as for selling/cashing out, total nightmare. HMRC will come knocking for their cut (they have a direct line to all KYC/AML exchanges). There's a reason nobody uses crypto as an actual currency. The fees, the hassle, the fact making a tiny error or forgetting your password means you send your coins into the aether. Sorry to rant but if it's all so easy, cost effective and whatnot, why don't you just cash out to fiat and buy your precious metals at the cheapest possible price? Yep, and therein lies the truth

If you really don't want to cash out to fiat there are options. The large US dealers will accept crypto and they often have new customer offers - silver at spot, gold at spot. If you take those offers and make a decent sized purchase, it is cost effective even with the 20% VAT and shipping added on top. Scottsdale Mint are good they accept crypto at 0% fee relative to fiat. The others like SDBullion and APMEX only charge 1%, so, it is definitely worth it if you are having issues buying with crypto from elsewhere. 

If you don't already have some Britannias then 100% buy some Britannias. If you do already have some then my recommendation is  buy some actual quality silver from Perth Mint/RAM, Scottsdale or Germania

On APMEX/SD for 100 of the 2024 Brits it's $28.31/$26.32 per coin whereas you could buy Cowboy rounds or several other products from Scottsdale for $25.82/each. There's no comparison in quality. If you were to take TSF as a baseline market from previously achieved sales prices, you can sell the Cowboy rounds for £30 each whereas the Britannias are £24

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

2023 Scottsdale Cowboy with Buffalo Privy 1 oz Silver Round (scottsdalemint.com)

Purchase the 2024 1 oz Silver Britannia Coin Online | SD Bullion

2024 Great Britain 1 oz Silver Britannia BU (King Charles III) (apmex.com)

[ccfcpaul]

Haha we all need a rant now and again eh!

Yeah cashing out is an option although its not very cost effective and I don't like holding money in exchanges. You never know what might go wrong! At least on chain its pretty much untouchable.

If someone was selling say 1000 quid in britannias and happy to accept 1000 quid in ethereum. It cuts out any middlemen and is the best solution for me. It is pretty much a case of, "if you dont ask you dont get".

Due to fees of turning the crypto into fiat, its not that cost effective for the seller and would have to be a case of the seller having it to keep as an investment.

I have bought using crypto before using bitpay on sharps pixley. Bitpay KYC'd but not sharps pixley as they dont unless you buy over 10k. Bitpay apparently remove the info after 1 year, whether they pass the info on though is the question. I presume so. Trouble with sharps pixley is their britania prices are a good 10% higher than others, which isn't cost effective when buying 100 or so.

I plan to buy britannias as I plan to buy in bulk, then sell, but keeping one for my personal collection, then repeat. By buying with crypto, it essentially kills 2 birds on wanting to collect and also trickle out of crypto.

One thing I learnt, was that exchanges treat all deposits as deposits. So if you make profit off their platform, they won't know about it. I.E. You buy 1000 quid in crypto. send it off the platform (effectively withdrawing with no profit). Trade in other cryptos off platform. Make 5k profit and send the 6k to the exchange, that 6k is just classed as a 6k deposit. You withdraw that and according to that exchange, you have made 0 profit whilst on that exchange that youve KYC'd with. Problem is when you pass certain thresholds and you haven't declared.

[ccfcpaul]

Yeah I looked at apmex and a few other foreign ones, but I have decided to stay clear of buying silver from abroad due to any issues with customs and potentially having to pay VAT on arrival etc. Too complicated for my liking (oh the irony!!)

What I will probably end up doing is just paying via Paypal.

[ccfcpaul]

I can't read your posts until I get a full membership. A Little frustrating that you cant get a 3 day trial or something, although I guess that would probably get abused!

[Bogart]

Have not got a clue about this crypto malarkey. Mind you having read the post from HonestMoneyGoldSilver above maybe is just as well.

 

 

 

 

[Anteater]

50 minutes ago, ccfcpaul said:

I can't read your posts until I get a full membership. A Little frustrating that you cant get a 3 day trial or something, although I guess that would probably get abused!

Well it's only £6/month and you can get a pretty good idea of what you get for that given that you can always go back and read the older sales threads once they're 3 days old. I'm not sure how much more risk mitigation you really need

[stackerp5]

There is a trial membership for £1, just click the orange banner at the top of the screen

I sell PM's for crypto at current market prices for only 6.5% (extra) on top of my prices if paid in crypto, certain items have a smaller fee. At this point in time I'm not selling any tubes of brits but I have other items for sale in case you want to invest. The forum has the odd occasional buyer/seller using crypto so you might find a deal in case you're not interested in what I got. Good luck!

Edited November 3, 2023 by stackerp5

[VeracityM]

5 hours ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

It's always been a pain in the arse and it's gotten progressively worse. You can't buy without KYC/AML in the UK and as for selling/cashing out, total nightmare. HMRC will come knocking for their cut (they have a direct line to all KYC/AML exchanges). There's a reason nobody uses crypto as an actual currency. The fees, the hassle, the fact making a tiny error or forgetting your password means you send your coins into the aether. Sorry to rant but if it's all so easy, cost effective and whatnot, why don't you just cash out to fiat and buy your precious metals at the cheapest possible price? Yep, and therein lies the truth

If you really don't want to cash out to fiat there are options. The large US dealers will accept crypto and they often have new customer offers - silver at spot, gold at spot. If you take those offers and make a decent sized purchase, it is cost effective even with the 20% VAT and shipping added on top. Scottsdale Mint are good they accept crypto at 0% fee relative to fiat. The others like SDBullion and APMEX only charge 1%, so, it is definitely worth it if you are having issues buying with crypto from elsewhere. 

If you don't already have some Britannias then 100% buy some Britannias. If you do already have some then my recommendation is  buy some actual quality silver from Perth Mint/RAM, Scottsdale or Germania

On APMEX/SD for 100 of the 2024 Brits it's $28.31/$26.32 per coin whereas you could buy Cowboy rounds or several other products from Scottsdale for $25.82/each. There's no comparison in quality. If you were to take TSF as a baseline market from previously achieved sales prices, you can sell the Cowboy rounds for £30 each whereas the Britannias are £24

That why we need to collectively start to accept it between each other and (as long as the transaction isn't on the big platforms - i.e: hardware wallets), the govt can go **** itself. It will then become just like money, only better, because it is not controlled by the government.

My twopen'orth 

[VeracityM]

5 hours ago, ccfcpaul said:

Haha we all need a rant now and again eh!

Yeah cashing out is an option although its not very cost effective and I don't like holding money in exchanges. You never know what might go wrong! At least on chain its pretty much untouchable.

If someone was selling say 1000 quid in britannias and happy to accept 1000 quid in ethereum. It cuts out any middlemen and is the best solution for me. It is pretty much a case of, "if you dont ask you dont get".

Due to fees of turning the crypto into fiat, its not that cost effective for the seller and would have to be a case of the seller having it to keep as an investment.

I have bought using crypto before using bitpay on sharps pixley. Bitpay KYC'd but not sharps pixley as they dont unless you buy over 10k. Bitpay apparently remove the info after 1 year, whether they pass the info on though is the question. I presume so. Trouble with sharps pixley is their britania prices are a good 10% higher than others, which isn't cost effective when buying 100 or so.

I plan to buy britannias as I plan to buy in bulk, then sell, but keeping one for my personal collection, then repeat. By buying with crypto, it essentially kills 2 birds on wanting to collect and also trickle out of crypto.

One thing I learnt, was that exchanges treat all deposits as deposits. So if you make profit off their platform, they won't know about it. I.E. You buy 1000 quid in crypto. send it off the platform (effectively withdrawing with no profit). Trade in other cryptos off platform. Make 5k profit and send the 6k to the exchange, that 6k is just classed as a 6k deposit. You withdraw that and according to that exchange, you have made 0 profit whilst on that exchange that youve KYC'd with. Problem is when you pass certain thresholds and you haven't declared.

There are a lot of people on this forum, so have a wait around and someone may take you up. I have just recently bought using BTC (which I have found is preferred on here - I do also have other Crypto's).

I think the larger problem you will face is the lack of feedback. As you are fairly new you won't get as many wanting to trade.

Also, the majority of members are also making their own 'ching', so making a profit may be difficult 😄

VeracityM 

[ccfcpaul]

Yeah, I think I will probably end up using money I have in paypal and then crypto if and when I can.

I just put up some gold on the bay at an inflated price, if it doesn't sell, I will put it up on here once I get some feedback from buying. 

Just been looking at the membership. I think ill set it up. A little surprised they don't accept paypal though!  

[Hiltron]

I would like to look at purchasing with crypto in future but doing so P2P is risky for a number of factors at present.

The counterparty wallet you are interacting with, could unbeknown to you, be under scrutiny for any number of crypto scams or protocol exploits which brings your own wallet address into question. We have seen funds stopped at exchanges unable to off ramp to FIAT. People using mixers for example.

I would suggest anyone looking to do this be looking at fresh wallets only and through a 3rd party proficient in using etherscan or other chain explorers.

[ccfcpaul]

Thats a very fair point! Generally why i keep off platforms. You also have mew wallet where you can cash out too, athough it comes at a large fee.

[stackerp5]

Just letting you know I have a large lot of 92.5% silver coins (pre decimal, pre 1920) that I am willing to take BitCoin or LiteCoin for. Unfortunately I don't hold ETH.

If paying in bitcoin I can discount my premium to 5.5% over the listing price, or if paying via LiteCoin, I can discount the premium to 5% over the listing price.

These coins are going for less than spot at current market rates, and due to their quality, I'd say this is primarily a weight stacking lot. If you're interested, or would like to dicuss other items/other deals, feel free to PM me.

I've not been on the forum as long as other reputable members but I've dealt with other users using crypto and with 300+ trades/purchases/sales on the forum. 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

1 hour ago, VeracityM said:

That why we need to collectively start to accept it between each other and (as long as the transaction isn't on the big platforms - i.e: hardware wallets), the govt can go **** itself. It will then become just like money, only better, because it is not controlled by the government.

My twopen'orth 

I agree in principle but as some already know, I've been into crypto since the beginning and I've been very anti-crypto for the past several years. It's hard to make an argument that BTC isn't controlled by central authorities when the concentration of wealth is 100 times greater than in fiat currency, with ETH it's 300-400 times more concentrated. BTC was created by the government as a trojan horse to acclimatise the masses to digital currencies in preparation for CBDCs

Crypto isn't money or even currency, it's a digital asset/security or as the acolytes like to call it, "digital gold", a phrase that makes my blood boil. BTC and many other cryptos by their nature are deflationary. That means it will never be in your interests to use it as a currency to buy anything except essentials as there's an expectation that BTC will be worth more next week/month/year than it is today. The classic example is the guy who spent over 100,000 BTC buying Papa John's pizzas. Bit of a mistake there spending ~$3.5 billion on pizza 😂. You get the point though, if you believe in BTC you should hoard your BTC and never spend it unless forced to

Doing something like swapping cash for crypto or vice-versa is risky - it's running an unlicensed money exchange. It was for this reason the crypto ATMs in the UK were shut down (the FCA declared all of them were operating illegally). If we look at the wider crypto ecosystem we can see this is where the feds direct their energy. There are folks who, how to put it, were using private marketplaces to conduct private transactions, many of which were frowned upon by authorities. The main dudes were rarely busted for those activities but what they got nailed for was cashing out or cashing out others without declaring it to the authorities and paying relevant taxes (operating unlicensed money exchanges)

IMHO there has only ever been one true money and there will only ever be one true money - gold and silver. We can't use those to buy petrol or groceries so the next best thing is cash. It's only cash, precious metals/commodity barter and privacy coins that are untraceable, with privacy coins having a shelf-life. BTC and ETH are not privacy coins. Not only is every transaction permanently recorded on a public ledger, but blockchain analysis allows folks like HMRC to not only see who is in present custody of the BTC but also who they got that BTC from, and who the previous person got it from, etc, etc. This enables central authorities to tax everyone accordingly with no transactions going under the radar - i.e. a CBDC

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

7 hours ago, ccfcpaul said:

Yeah cashing out is an option although its not very cost effective and I don't like holding money in exchanges. You never know what might go wrong! At least on chain its pretty much untouchable.

100%. Not your keys, not your coins. The fees are also too high (I was looking at about 3%)

7 hours ago, ccfcpaul said:

Due to fees of turning the crypto into fiat, its not that cost effective for the seller and would have to be a case of the seller having it to keep as an investment.

7 hours ago, ccfcpaul said:

One thing I learnt, was that exchanges treat all deposits as deposits. So if you make profit off their platform, they won't know about it. I.E. You buy 1000 quid in crypto. send it off the platform (effectively withdrawing with no profit). Trade in other cryptos off platform. Make 5k profit and send the 6k to the exchange, that 6k is just classed as a 6k deposit. You withdraw that and according to that exchange, you have made 0 profit whilst on that exchange that youve KYC'd with. Problem is when you pass certain thresholds and you haven't declared.

Indeed. One thing I learnt is that exchanges will make you jump through a bunch of hoops if you try to cash out crypto that you didn't originally buy on their platform

[JohnA1]

On 03/11/2023 at 20:52, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

..Not only is every transaction permanently recorded on a public ledger, but blockchain analysis allows folks like HMRC to not only see who is in present custody of the BTC but also who they got that BTC from, and who the previous person got it from, etc,

They can also track the future action on the wallet they've just identified who it belongs to.

They can 'block off' bitcoin they regard as proceeds of crime (years back perhaps), even though you got it in good faith. Money it ain't..

[dmcac]

Just now, JohnA1 said:

They can also track the future action on the wallet they've just identified who it belongs to.

They can 'block off' bitcoin they regard as proceeds of crime (years back perhaps), even though you got it in good faith. Money it ain't..

I can't believe you're using the face of "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy" ahah soon I saw the face I thought that's a great picture!!! You're in the right place buy all the shiny you can! 

[JohnA1]

3 minutes ago, dmcac said:

I can't believe you're using the face of "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy" ahah soon I saw the face I thought that's a great picture!!!

Happy face, innit

[VeracityM]

12 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

They can also track the future action on the wallet they've just identified who it belongs to.

They can 'block off' bitcoin they regard as proceeds of crime (years back perhaps), even though you got it in good faith. Money it ain't..

Maybe check out Bitcoin flushing, so I'm told

Law enforcement always wants to sow the seeds of omnipotence and effectiveness, when in reality their apprehension statistics don't make good reading 😇

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by VeracityM

[JohnA1]

No crypto-bashing here, I've got friends heating up the house with miners.

 

[Slaves]

I only buy and stack at the moment but I would definitely use crypto where possible.

These institutions have far too much power. We need to take some back.

free trade between people should be a right.

We are all in danger. Manufactured diseases, Constant forever wars, news outlets constantly spreading fear and lies.

Crime families and gangs in charge of most governments of the worlds.

The devolving human race.

rant over thanks for listening 😂

 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

5 hours ago, VeracityM said:

Maybe check out Bitcoin flushing, so I'm told

Law enforcement always wants to sow the seeds of omnipotence and effectiveness, when in reality their apprehension statistics don't make good reading 😇

 

Another rant incoming

TL:DR - Cryptos are an imperfect technology with poor governance being promoted as the finished article with deified leaders

I wouldn't mind crypto if it was untraceable digital cash with a fixed exchange rate to gold and silver. That sort of crypto is coming. It already exists in Texas apart from the privacy aspect. Some folks have said that's where the BRICS will end up and credible analysts and financial historians are suggesting it will happen in the west too instead of or as well as CBDCs

What I find distasteful is crypto being used as a Ponzi scheme to enrich those issuing, mining and facilitating crypto trades, while the folks that actually use it as currency or buy in at the ATHs get skinned alive. When it comes to crypto, almost every person I've ever talked to owns it with a view to getting rich. They expect to become wealthy via unproductive work or zero work. Nobody sees a problem with this as long as it's them who are being unfairly enriched. Take the far-left of the political spectrum, who are the majority users of crypto. Listen to them cry about ICE vehicles, about cows belching, about everything you could imagine except for ....... BITCOIN. When it comes to their pockets it's fine to use proof-of-work and it's great that BTC has a carbon footprint bigger than Argentina.

Examine the largest companies like Google and BlackRock who support and facilitate crypto and far-left ideologies, they are nuts for ESG. When it comes to remote working suddenly their true motivations become plain - they don't care about ESG, get your ass into your ICE vehicle and drive it to this office so our commercial real estate retains its value and we make more money. Make twice as much carbon as you did previously just get your ass into the office!! They are total hypocrites, paper tigers

Ultimately the USD is the world's reserve currency because it's backed by the US military and security services, along with global agreements (Bretton Woods, etc). An asset can't be a global currency without a global army, at least it's never happened before in human history except for the truly independent gold and silver (which get hoarded by the most powerful armies). Maybe this time will be different? That's what Celsius told us, 3AC, FTX, Terra Luna, Voyager and Binance. It's different this time

Nope, nothing has changed, we've even greedier than before. We're growing our Dark Tetrad - Machiavellianism, Narcissism, Psychopathy and Sadism. These traits show up in every business and every individual to some extent but with crypto and social media it's more prominent than anywhere else, with some seeing them as positive virtues. Think about it. Machiavellianism is deception, misdirection, coercion. Yep that's crypto/social media. Narcissism - our blockchain is the best, our tokens are the best, I'm the hottest sign up for my OF. Social media is narcissism in its purest form. Psychopathy? The BTC devs don't care if ETH crashes or vice-versa, they don't care if exchanges collapse or people lose billions, they only care if (insert token here) outperforms the market. Sadism? Oh some people will actively delight in the suffering of others and their ability to control and manipulate assets prices or people

I would argue 1) The USD is backed by the military, technology, US population and allied nations;

2) That crypto as it currently exists is backed by the dark tetrad - Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy and sadism

The more people buy into the dark tetrad and promote these traits as being positive character traits or positive business traits, the better crypto will do. A society that descends into lawlessness and depravity is well-suited to adopt crypto. A society that's stable and productive would prefer gold-backed crypto or gold-backed currency that is not speculative and is practically useable as a currency. As already discussed, too many of us will choose to put our own self-interest above all, and many more of us will follow along like sheep to the narcissists on social media and in the crypto sphere

There is zero reason to buy BTC or the majority of cryptos other than to speculate and enrich ourselves with future price action while doing zero productive work. To realise those crypto gains you're going to have to cash out to fiat which ultimately unmasks the hypocrisy of crypto evangelists. The idea is to tell you that fiat currencies are collapsing, that central authorities are wicked beyond measure. They have the viable alternative, their fiat crypto is great and their central authorities/corporate governance is beyond reproach. The truth is the actions of central authorities in crypto are orders of magnitude more incompetent and more corrupt than those in fiat, and their ultimate goal is to cash out to fiat, not run a global crypto ecosystem which is neither viable nor desirable. A global crypto like BTC being used for all transactions would be a global CBDC, unleashing untold misery upon billions. Great if you own the BTC though so who cares? That is the long and short of it.

Cryptos, fiat, digital assets, digital currencies, these are controlled by central authorities. Gold and silver also obey a central authority but this central authority is incorruptible - it's the universe itself - and this is why gold and silver are "God's Money"