Certificate of Authentication (COA) when is it valid?

[bigstudotcom]

As a relative newbie to collecting / stacking I would appreciate the value of the forum members knowledge and thoughts on what is required on a COA. 

Following receipt of a set of coins which was advertised as having a COA I was happy with the Set but the COA  then made me have doubts. 

The wording was a bit peculiar as it  stated "Authenticity approved by" followed by the name of a person with the title of Expert Numimatist. That was it. 

I thought the use of  "approved"  was poor as I would have expected something more positive  like guaranteed. I researched the person but could not find any trace of them nor was there any mention of their base. 

I considered my position after speaking to the Dealer who could not give me an explanation and returned the purchase. 

Was I being unreasonable? I then realised that I may attach to much importance to COA's?

I would appreciate fellow members thoughts on the subject of COA's

What would you expect to see in a COA? 

Have they got any strength or meaning? 

Are they a legal document? 

Sorry for the length of this document but I find the subject fascinating. My grateful thanks to the TSF for your help and support. 

Regards 

Stu 

 

[modofantasma]

I'd give zero weight to a coa as proving the coins to be authentic.

Some dealers make their own coa's for items which their target market might like.

If you have a proof coin or set it would be ideal to come complete with the original coa though

Have you a photo of the one you're talking about we could perhaps advise better?

 

[bigstudotcom]

Thanks for your time. I value COA when from a mint but this was the first time I had seen one for circulated coins. I am sure you are right about home produced COA's 

I'll try to upload a picture of the document. 

[MBTPSilver]

I wouldn't put any faith in a COA. If someone is good enough to produce a convincingly fake bar/coin they can certainly open up photoshop and produce a fake COA to go with it. Only the metal itself can guarantee what the metal is.

[Spyder]

London mint produces their own to go with their overpriced coins. If you go on Hatton Garden Metals , even they are now happy to produce their own COA

See below

https://www.hattongardenmetals.com/gold-sovereign-elizabeth-pre-decimal

[bigstudotcom]

Thanks MBTPSilver and Spyder, 

I had come to the conclusion that COA's have no value and I am surprised by the number of dealers own produced COA's - perhaps they should be accepted as an indicator of high prices. 

[SilverPlatinum]

COA is useless.

If you have a high end coin, then send it to PCGS or NGC to grade it and that is the best.

[TeaTime]

The wording on the COA is odd (perhaps the writer was trying too hard to sound official) . 'Authenticity approved'  in this case literally means that some random person - albeit an 'expert numismatist' - has approved of it rather than a consensus that it is (they are) genuine. In general for something to be approved it has to be agreed between more than one person. 

As for COAs - in my opinion they are a waste of good trees. Some people insist on a manufacturers COA when purchasing specimen / proof coins - and generally pay a lot more than they need to for the privilege of owning a bit of paper. 

 A COA should be treated as a legal document - but only when it is unambiguous (and genuine).  

 

  

 

[bigstudotcom]

Image of COA

Adobe Scan 13 Jul 2023.pdf

[TeaTime]

Hmmm, well technically the 'authenticity approved' could be referring to the information on the paperwork rather than the coins.....

I would not consider a photocopied information sheet a COA. I would be looking for some more concrete provenance with something so specialist.  I think you were right to return the coins - not necessarily because of the paperwork but because the items are too easily faked.    

 

[bigstudotcom]

Thanks Teatime for your wise words. 

[bigstudotcom]

Thanks Teatime. The image is my copy but that is its original size and was printed on card. It's an interesting point that you made about the wording that it could be in regard to the printed information. 

[dicker]

COA’s are in my opinion very archaic, and not useful.  In someways, grading and slabbing has replaced the CoA.

But I dislike both.  Best to learn and use your own judgement.  
 

Best

Dicker

[GoldDiggerDave]

@bigstudotcom  even if a dear bestows themselves with a title of “expert numismatist”  what does it really mean?  It certainly doesn’t mean they are right all the time no matter how much they would like.  
 

The self made COA have zero provenance, just something trying to add value to a coin.

 

What are you buying? 

[Minted]

I had to laugh at a homemade COA I was provided with last year.  Bought the coin as it was cheap enough to gamble on.  The COA is literally just a business card with a copy & paste image and a random signature, plus a holographic sticker that can be bought in their hundreds from eBay or Amazon.  The seller couldn't even be bothered to use the correct sized capsule, it's massively oversized.  The coin itself does appear to be genuine, but if I ever get a Sigma, I won't be surprised if it isn't.

I like a COA from well known retailers in a box with a proof coin, but for anything else, I don't put any faith in a COA.  I also have a few autographs with homemade COA's and wouldn't trust those either.

[dicker]

Need I say more?

Invest in reference books and a loupe and buy coins on their individual merit.  

Take grading as a good guide, but be aware that graded coins can often lack eye appeal the you might otherwise expect for a specific grade.