Silver Tray of Gold Coins - 3 Different Colours - Can Anyone Identify All of These? + Where's Wally?

[Foster88]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

How did you manage to get the "Quote" and the new message the opposite way round?

You flatter me with the idea that I could think so creatively.

No, in fact, we have to keep "re-ordering" new Krugerrands. 

I don't know why when there are plenty of old Krugers around at low premiums, but people ask for for 2022s, so we buy a few, they sell, so we buy some more. Britannias look nicer, are cheaper, 3.9% instead of 5.0% for singles; we have better quantity price breaks for them, 3.0% for 200+ compared with 4.7% for 10+.

They are not the best investment, they don't look very attractive, so I doubt that people buy them for their aesthetics; I doubt that many people "collect" Krugers as numismatic items, so I still don't understand why people buy them.

In the UK, they are not CGT efficient, whereas gold Britannias and sovereigns are. The last time we bought them direct from Rand Refineries, it was not really worthwhile. To get the best premiums, it is necessary to buy 5,000 or 10,000 at a time, which would be dumb for us to do when we have easier access to better coins and deals. Also the shipping was dumb because Rand Refineries couldn't or wouldn't ship via Manchester Airport, so sent them via Gatwick instead. Their shipping agent couldn't or wouldn't forward them by carrier to Blackpool, so some idiot had to do a 500 mile round trip, with an overnight stay, find a parking meter at the wrong end of Hatton Garden in London at £1 per 4 minutes, run along the length of Hatton Garden, have to go through front desk security before I could even get into the building, then wait what seemed ages to collect them, followed by running back along Hatton Garden with a 19 kilo rucksack, hoping my car had not been towed away or issued an excess penalty.

Once was enough!

😎

I’m exhausted after reading that. 😆

It’s a good job nobody knew what was in your rucksack. 😬

[Britannia47]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

I doubt that many people "collect" Krugers as numismatic items, so I still don't understand why people buy them.

Well I did back in 1997!  The 1974 was my very first 1oz bullion gold coin. Bought another 3 and used them to part exchange for different bullion, mostly Brits. In 2009 bought a 'Philharmoniker' (hope my spelling is OK! ) from a 'Blackpool dealer' for £660! However you can see by the photo the early Krug. probably has silver in it, but the proof 1997 certificate states the alloy as all copper. I agree with Lemmy, there's not much attraction today.

Please go easy on James and his spelling mistakes. He probably didn't go to grammar school like what we done, maybe expelled?!

As for my slip up with the quote I was aware, but couldn't be arsed to change it!  How about your spelling mistake referring to the LMO?  Was 'Orifice' a typo? LOL.

[LawrenceChard]

12 minutes ago, SidS said:

If they want the true definition of 'crown gold' then to my mind they need to acquire some Henry VIII 1526 gold issues and analyse those, as they were the first issues struck in this alloy and thus the originals.

Which then opens up the debate of whether the 1817 sovereigns were issued in the same alloy or not. It could be true that the mint is using the correct crown gold alloy as per its original definition from the Tudor era, and yet failing to get the correct sovereign colour because the 1817s were issued in something different all along.

To my mind though, from the Tudor gold coins I've seen, I think they, like the 1817 sovereigns, contain silver.

I am sure that the Royal Mint Museum does own at least one of the Henry VIII sovereigns, in which case, someone there may have assessed its alloy content. I think the Royal Mint possibly owns an XRF machine, which would make testing it very quick and easy.

I / we own a Henry VIII half sovereign:

We have Niton XRF tested it:

Niton XRF test results.

Showing this is "Crown Gold"

Notice the traditional high silver content.

This has got more silver than copper.

So much for all the ignorami who think "Crown Gold" was traditionally only alloyed with copper!

I have previously posted about this coin here:

Of course, the RMM also owns at least one 1817 gold sovereign, which they could also have tested.

I have tested at least one of them, and it is mentioned here:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/analysis-of-alloy-content-of-gold-sovereigns/180

Date	Mint	Country	Coin	Type	Gold	Copper	Silver	Iron	Tin	Other
1817	London	U.K.	Sovereign	George III	912	40	45	2	0	0

The original "Crown Gold" specifications, from 1544, were in effect simply that it was to be 22ct gold, and the admetal was not specified.

This was undoubtedly a lack of foresight by the powers that were at the time, because they failed to realise that a mere 500 or so years later, anyone would be so stupid or ignorant as to think there should be no silver content, or to make coins, including gold sovereigns without any silver content, leaving them an appalling red / pink colour.

One of my mantras or philosophies is that the first stage in fixing any problem is to realise there is a problem.

The second stage is to figure out what the problem is.

Only then can you start work on rectifying it.

I have tried to tell the Royal Mint there is a problem.

I have tried to tell the Royal Mint what the problem is.

I have tried to tell the Royal Mint the simple solution.

As Don McLean srote and sang:

They would not listen, they're not listening still
Perhaps they never will...

😎

[LawrenceChard]

37 minutes ago, Foster88 said:

I’m exhausted after reading that. 😆

It’s a good job nobody knew what was in your rucksack. 😬

You should have tried writing it!

Ignorance can sometimes be the best defence.

By that, I mean that if nobody knows, it is some of the best security.

😎

[Darr3nG]

10 hours ago, LemmyMcGregor said:

Lethal Weapon 2

[LemmyMcGregor]

Someone else usually comes to mind thinking of that film.