Spotting fake Morgan dollars

[Dan12345]

Hi all 

I've picked up a job lot of Morgan dollars and an not sure if they are real or fake is so hard to tell. 

They all pass the magnetic test and don't really have no obvious flaws. One thing that is strange is they all weigh 23/24 grams. I know Morgans should weigh 26.7 but wouldnt they lose some weight over time 

Thanks

[Zhorro]

11 minutes ago, Dan12345 said:

Hi all 

I've picked up a job lot of Morgan dollars and an not sure if they are real or fake is so hard to tell. 

They all pass the magnetic test and don't really have no obvious flaws. One thing that is strange is they all weigh 23/24 grams. I know Morgans should weigh 26.7 but wouldnt they lose some weight over time 

Thanks

One or two close up pictures would be useful.  Where did you buy them from (bullion dealer, collector, China, etc)?

[Dan12345]

Hi 

I picked them up from a guy I know that brought a job lot of 110 coins from America 

 

[Dan12345]

Here's a few of the ones I have, I have 22 in total 

[dicker]

Hi Dan,

I am afraid they all look counterfeit to me.  

• Take the first coin as an example - you just don't see massive splodges of metal on minted Morgans as per the below I have cut out.  The other coins all have issues as far as I can see...
• The colour looks off
• The weight is also way off - a dead giveaway.  I have a slick Morgan with almost no detail left and this comes in at 25.64g - yours are definitely too light
• The magnet test works on the steel counterfeits but I have read that other non-magnetic metals are now being used
• The other coins all have issues as far as I can see...

I am not the forums Morgan Dollar expert, but I have bought a >200 hundred for my collection - the majority graded while working / travelling in the US over the years - the majority being PCGS / NCG graded and spent time examine them for VAM errors under microscopes.  Other TSF members views more than welcome!

Best

Dicker

 

 

From the ordering of your pictures I think you have:

1904 - S

1894 - CC

1888 - No Mint Mark - Therefore Philadelphia

1893 S

 

The dates and mintmark are significant because in 3/4 cases represent coins that are rare / high value / hard to get hold of...or don't exist

1904 - S - Sought after and is noted as a key issue in Bowers book.  It is relatively low mintage.  This is not easy to find....

1894 - CC - No Morgans were minted at the Carson City mint in 1894

1888 - Relatively common

1893 S - Rare and very highly sought after.  If yours was genuine even in that condition I would guess it would be worth £2000 or more

 

 

[Dan12345]

Hi Dicker 

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I was starting to think they are all fakes as oddly they all are under weight by the same amount. I did a ping test in them today and they sound slightly different to an old sliver Australian crown that I have. They actually ping the same sound as the hobo dollar which is obviously fake.

It's crazy to think that these fakes can look so real to the eye. 

Lovely coins and I shall be collecting a few real ones now 🤣

[Dan12345]

Hi Dicker 

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I was starting to think they are all fakes as oddly they all are under weight by the same amount. I did a ping test in them today and they sound slightly different to an old sliver Australian crown that I have. They actually ping the same sound as the hobo dollar which is obviously fake.

It's crazy to think that these fakes can look so real to the eye. 

Lovely coins and I shall be collecting a few real ones now 🤣

[dicker]

Hi Dan,

No problem at all - it is worth perhaps getting a graded example as a reference that you can judge other purchases against.

I would personally steer clear of eBay as there are coins for sale there that I suspect very high grade counterfeits as well as the obvious ones.

The below article is worth a read - without looking at this coin under Magnification, I would would not be able to tell it was counterfeit.

Best

Dicker

 

https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/counterfeit-coin-detection-a-morgan-dollar-super-fake-revealed/

 

[ilovesilverireallydo]

SOrry bud - definitely all fakes. 

I have some low grade ones *genuine* that you can have relative cheap if you want. 

[Dan12345]

47 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

SOrry bud - definitely all fakes. 

I have some low grade ones *genuine* that you can have relative cheap if you want. 

It's cool I'll just return them and get my money back.

Could be interested in the coins mate do you have any pictures please

 

[Dan12345]

Just look up Morgan dollars on a Chinese app and you can pick them up for about £1 each. People have even left reviews saying they weigh 26.7 grams and are silver plated. 

[ilovesilverireallydo]

4 minutes ago, Dan12345 said:

It's cool I'll just return them and get my money back.

Could be interested in the coins mate do you have any pictures please

 

 

[Mrpound]

@DuncanWylieWilson also has some for sale 😁

[DuncanWylieWilson]

4 minutes ago, Mrpound said:

@DuncanWylieWilson also has some for sale 😁

I do indeed! 😅

[dicker]

@Dan12345

It’s good to share pics and always feel free to post up pics of coins you are thinking of buying.  People are pretty generous with warning of coins look ok or not.  It’s not flawproof is helpful!

Cheers

Dicker

[Booky586]

I agree with @dicker and @ilovesilverireallydo, they do look suspect.

Something I've noticed on some old silver coin copies (not just Morgan Dollars) is the counterfeiter will try and add some tarnish/toning to them to give them an aged look. They apply a darker coating to the whole coin then wipe it off the high spots, but it doesn't always look genuine. The tell tale sign is the wipe stroke direction left behind in the fake tarnish. I've added a red line in the direction of the wipe on your coins below, I hope this highlights it. if I ever see this on a photo of a coin for sale I'll always give it a wide berth.

 

[Junior]

Hey guys,

Not that I am a Morgan Dollar specialist (or any coin for that matter), but I am a physics and chemistry major. Keeping that in mind, different metals will have different densities. Silver's density is 10.49g/cm3 (pure). For a fake coin to weigh the same as a real Morgan, it would normally be larger by dimensions since the metal used will have a lesser density than silver. This is an almost too obvious flaw in a fake coin and most collectors would spot the size difference immediately. So a better option (for a forgery) is to create the same size coin and risk the weight slightly under the true coin in hopes of tricking an unsuspecting buyer.

Do not feel bad because most novice collectors would rarely detect a Morgan missing a couple grams worth of weight unless they have handled dozens of Morgans to know the difference. A well circulated Morgan can be missing up to a gram +/- if the coin is in poor condition. But average circulation coins should be fairly close to the weight of the original. If the coin measures exactly what the Morgan is supposed to be and many of the details are still visible, then the weight should not be off by three, two, or even one gram. It is probably a forgery.

[Junior]

One side note as well, I have in my collection a fake 1893-CC Morgan. I purposely bought this coin to assist in spotting other fakes before I buy my Morgans. I would suggest keeping one of the better fakes and study the discrepancies of that coin so it doesn't happen in the future.   :)

[Dan12345]

Thanks for the reply I've learnt quite alot about Morgan dollars over the last few days thanks to you guys 

[Peacemaker]

On 30/07/2021 at 22:17, Dan12345 said:

Thanks for the reply I've learnt quite alot about Morgan dollars over the last few days thanks to you guys 

Beautiful coins, great history, learn as much as you can and keep stacking!