Morgan Silver Dollar 1881

[SamGibsonBJJ]

I recently purchased this Morgan silver Dollar for a really good price. I’m thinking about getting it graded and was wondering if someone with more experience could tell me if it’s worth it? 
 

Many Thanks,

Sam

[dicker]

Hi Sam

Where did you get it - to my eye it looks to be counterfeit.

Looks like 'pop' holes on the coins, the date looks very off to me and the L on 'PLURIBUS' is definitely super odd.

It doesn't really look like the same coins I have seen.

Best

Dicker

 

https://www.coinstudy.com/1881-morgan-silver-dollar-value.html

[dicker]

@Peacemaker Thoughts?

Best

Dicker

[SamGibsonBJJ]

I bought it from EBay for a cheap price. The seller said it was his grandfathers collection who died recently, it was his wish for the proceeds of selling the   coin collection to go to charity. The seller has been nothing but kind so getting the money back is not an option. Can I have anyone else’s opinion and thanks guys for letting me know it may be fake.

See message below as to where it came from. Cool story will keep even if fake as it’s been a fun story.

 

[SamGibsonBJJ]

[dicker]

A few things to check

(1) Is it magnetic

(2) Does it weigh 26.73 g or very close to that

(3) Is it 31.9 mm in diameter

(4) Is it 2.4 mm thick

All the best,

Dicker

[dicker]

Hi Sam,

So in the listing the the gentleman selling the coin shows the weight - on picture 3.

The coin on the sellers scales weighs 24.9g. I would say thats pretty under weight.....

As for the description 'Exceptional Detail, Definition and Stunning Condition'  I could not disagree more.

Best

Dicker

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1881-Morgan-Dollar-BRILLIANT-EXONUMIA-COIN-Please-See-Photo-039-s-/324516807591?hash=item4b8eb583a7%3Ag%3Ap6wAAOSwoR1gAbhJ&nma=true&si=%2FnSY5pVta7nR55xmOYLsyWZyOU0%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[SamGibsonBJJ]

Here are some better pictures. Thanks for the feed back. The dimensions for the coin are correct the weight is slightly under but I’ve seen the same with sovereigns over the years with wear. 
 

If it’s fake it’s a very good copy as the details are pretty much spot on. The only thing that looks suspect to me is the ‘s’ mint mark.

please guys take a look and tell me what you think! The more opinions the better.

 

Many Thanks,

Sam

 

[Mrpound]

I would have to agree with @dicker it looks abit off, to be sure... if you take it to a good Jewlers or pawn shop they will be able to gun it for you and tell you the metal content. I’ve done it in the past with a fake Morgan, hope this helps @SamGibsonBJJ

[dicker]

Hi Sam,

I would need to see it in hand to really judge but here is what I can see.

Red = significant weakness

Green = what I think may be pop marks from the coin being cast

If the coin was a slick (no detail remaining) then it might get down to 24.9 g.  I have 104 Morgans - some in terribly worn condition but none are as low weight as 24.9g.

Also, if you zoom in and look at the denticles, thy are somewhat uneven and there is a broken dentical at the point of the eagles wing.

Did it pass the magnet test?

 

Best

Dicker

 

 

 

[dicker]

Sorry I forgot to add that I also think the Serif's look off.

For a look at a high fidelity counterfeit, look no further than..... https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/counterfeit-coin-detection-a-morgan-dollar-super-fake-revealed/

Best

Dicker

[dicker]

Even if the seller cuts up rough, don't worry, eBay is on your side as the purchaser.

Best

Dicker

[dicker]

By the way, this is my 'Bible' when it comes to collecting Morgans - a useful investment.

Best

Dicker

[Mrpound]

Just now, dicker said:

By the way, this is my 'Bible' when it comes to collecting Morgans - a useful investment.

Best

Dicker

I have the same thing definitely invest in one of theses.

[dicker]

If it is counterfeit as I suspect, will be interesting to see how the vendor responds.

This is one of his previous sales....

Best

Dicker

 

[Mrpound]

I have a pot with 4 fakes in which I don’t want  back into the community

1 peace, 1 Morgan and 2 Scottsdale mint bars all from eBay and I’ve refused to send back and demanded a refund after providing proof there fake,with the help of eBay got 3/4 refunded. They have been exiled to the pot of doom forever.

[sovereignsteve]

Regardless whether it's genuine or not, it really isn't worth grading by any means. It's a very common coin and mint state examples are easy to obtain, this one is far from that.

[dicker]

Pre-covid I went to a lot of antique fairs and twice in 2019 I saw non-coin dealers with large boxes of counterfeit Morgans - selling for something like a tenner a go.  I did ask them about authenticity - one claimed they were part of (yes you have guessed it.....) a house clearance!  The other vendor claimed them to be 'pukka' and was not amused when I told them that they were as counterfeit.

Best

Dicker

[SamGibsonBJJ]

It passed the magnet test and the dimensions are correct. It also looks and sounds like Silver. However after seeing the above evidence I think there is a good chance this is a fake. I feel the seller is telling the truth about his grandad owning the coins and probably didn't know, so I'm going to keep it and take it to a coin shop in London when they open to see what metal it is and whether it is fake. 

 

If it is a fake I'm genuinely impress at how good they are. I paid £17 for it and if he did donate it to charity Im willing to take the hit. The seller didn't even send it tracked or insured but was kind with his messages and seemed genuinely happy that I was going to keep the coin, even writing a note.

 

Anyone else have any opinions?

[dicker]

Just seen his previous sales.....he has sold a *lot* of 1847 Gothic Crowns for around £30 quid each.  Not marked as restrikes.

Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1847-Victoria-Gothic-Crown-QUALITY-EXONUMIA-Coin-Please-See-Photos-FREE-POST/324488736812?hash=item4b8d09302c:g:R8AAAOSwQPVf703A

 

And here's the real thing (£3,520)

https://www.royalmint.com/our-coins/ranges/historic-coins/historic-crowns/victoria-gothic-crown-1847/

These are mixed between junk coins.

 

M'lud, I rest my case.....

Best

Dicker

 

 

[GBStacking]

I'm sorry to say this screams fake to me too, i will differ to those more well versed in the absolute specifics of the coin as i err more on the bullion side of things, but the listings on that site and the way they are done mirrors dozens of fakes both for coins\bullion and other items that i have seen over the years. Always linked to being the property of someone who has now passed away or found in a house clearance. Thus providing the perfect excuse to claim they knew nothing of the items provenance if they are challenged on it being fake. They also almost always never post them tracked, the items simply aren't worth enough. It's also highly unlikely that the money went to any charity I'm afraid. I am absolutely happy to be proven wrong if some more convincing evidence turns up, but my suspicious mind goes into overdrive on sale posts like these.

[SamGibsonBJJ]

You have been a great help Dicker thank you for helping me. You are right and I decided to get my money back as I would like to buy a real one. You don't happen to have any for sale do you or know somewhere good to buy them?

[dicker]

Hi Sam,

Its a pleasure.  So a couple of places to start where you will get a good one.

My advice (having bought quite a lot) is to go for a really good quality one that is in no way special in terms of date.  Possibly even a graded one if funds permit - and then you will have a reference point.

I would suggest something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1889-MORGAN-SILVER-DOLLAR-ANACS-MS-60-FREE-S-H-2126472/363329605012?hash=item549821cd94%3Ag%3AZL8AAOSw24VgV0dH&LH_BIN=1

 

Where to get Morgans....

(1) @Peacemakeris or was selling his collection he may have some high quality examples?

(2) I bought lots from Cambridgeshire Coins previously - they always seem to have a good stock of Morgans and the prices are not too bad.  This one looked quite nice for the money https://cambridgeshirecoins.com/products/1896-usa-silver-morgan-dollar-ref-1?_pos=29&_sid=fbf9ae138&_ss=r

Note: I have no relationship with either 1 or 2 - they have just sold me some really nice Morgans previously.

 

Please do feel free to reach out to me on PM as well as publicly if you have any questions.

All the best to you

Dicker

 

 

[SamGibsonBJJ]

I have ordered the coin you recommend from Cambridgeshire coins.

I can’t thank you enough for helping me in my Morgan quest. You have a wealth of knowledge that you happily shared with a beginner and I truly appreciate it. You have a friend for life!

Thanks again Dicker.

 

Sam

[Wampum]

Brilliant information @dicker, @SamGibsonBJJ got himself a great coin.