Reporting purchase to HMRC

[Michal]

Hi Ladies and Gentlemans, I was wondering over what purchase amount dealer have to report you to HMRC. I found info that one time purchase over £5000 and total purchases in 12 months of £10000. I am writing about buying gold in UK. Anybody got more info about this matter ?

[Nugget]

That's about right IRC.

So if you purchase £5,000 in one transaction then I believe they will have to report and ID you.  Also £10,000 or more in one year and it's reportable. 

If you have a wife or partner then you spread purchases between you.  So if you are at £9,999 and want to buy more, give the wife the cash, get her to buy it and then she could just give it back to you (no disposal for CGT regardless of coin type as inter spouse transfers are CGT free).

More info here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/gold-acquisitions-imports-investments-and-vat-notice-70121

CGT info here:

https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax

[Martlet]

I believe they dont report you for purchases of £5000, the dealers have to take ID and keep records the purchase for inspection.  One of the dealers can verify, perhaps @LawrenceChard?  

[Nugget]

I was just going off this section on the above link.

 When to notify HMRC about investment gold

This section has force of law.

 

The first time that you make an exempt supply of investment gold which exceeds £5,000, or when the value of your supplies of exempt investment gold to any one customer is over £10,000 in any 12 month period, you must notify us within 28 days by writing to our Written Enquiries Section

But would be good to get confirmation

 

 

[Martlet]

8 minutes ago, Nugget said:

I was just going off this section on the above link.

 When to notify HMRC about investment gold

This section has force of law.

 

The first time that you make an exempt supply of investment gold which exceeds £5,000, or when the value of your supplies of exempt investment gold to any one customer is over £10,000 in any 12 month period, you must notify us within 28 days by writing to our Written Enquiries Section

But would be good to get confirmation

 

 

That would be about a company reporting themselves for supplying gold, essentially declaring to HMRC they are dealer.  Its under the VAT section, the legislation concerning individuals purchases come under Anti-Money Lauding and cover purchases beyond gold. 

[Nugget]

Ah, see I knew I hadn't had enough coffee this morning lol

Does this link help:

https://www.atsbullion.com/faqs/are-there-any-id-requirements/

[LawrenceChard]

8 hours ago, Martlet said:

I believe they dont report you for purchases of £5000, the dealers have to take ID and keep records the purchase for inspection.  One of the dealers can verify, perhaps @LawrenceChard?  

There are common misunderstandings about reporting.

As Nugget said:

"The first time that you make an exempt supply of investment gold which exceeds £5,000, or when the value of your supplies of exempt investment gold to any one customer is over £10,000 in any 12 month period, you must notify us within 28 days by writing to our Written Enquiries Section."

But this refers to the dealer having made a supply, rather than reporting the customer's purchase. In our case, this happened on or about 1st January 2000.

In section 3, the Government guidance states:

"You do not need to notify us of subsequent supplies."

But, as I think you all know, dealers must keep adequate records, and also be aware of anti-money-laundering requirements.

So, it is not standard or routine for dealers to inform HMRC of customers making gold purchases of any amount. The principal exception to this is if the dealer has any reason to suspect money laundering, or the source of funds. Reluctance to provide ID might be a trigger for suspicion.

What some may not realise, is that the money laundering rules apply to most other businesses, banks in particular; and it is a criminal offence if a bank employee fails to make sufficient enquiries, or to report any suspicions. Banks and their employees are not permitted to inform their customers that they have any suspicions, or even to explain why they are asking questions if there is any risk this might alert the customer that they are under any suspicion. 

Some years ago, I asked a banker what the threshold was for reporting transaction, and I received the surprising answer that there was no threshold. He went on to give me this example:

If the bank had a customer with a sandwich or coffee shop, but often banked cheques (or card payments) for say £30 each, this sould be considered unusual, as not many sandwiches or coffees cost £30. The bank must make discreet enquiries. It is possible that the customer may be supplying £30 parcels of drugs, and using the coffee shop as a "cover".

Worth thinking about whenever you do any banking!

[MancunianStacker]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

What some may not realise, is that the money laundering rules apply to most other businesses, banks in particular

Yeah, pay in more than a few hundred at my bank and they ask where it came from. “Won it at the bookies” answer must me given a lot.

[Paul]

38 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

Yeah, pay in more than a few hundred at my bank and they ask where it came from.

"i sold some gold coins "

They press the red button panic alarm, some freaky free thinking anarchists here trying to bring the fiat system down 

[LawrenceChard]

On 04/03/2021 at 18:43, MancunianStacker said:

Yeah, pay in more than a few hundred at my bank and they ask where it came from. “Won it at the bookies” answer must me given a lot.

That's because you are thinking too small.

Now if it was £365 million, including £264 million in cash, NatWest (RBS) would have been quite happy to take your money without asking too many questions.

🙂