TeaTime

Same happened to me last year - a coin i had ordered was subsequently not available and the order cancelled.... a couple of months later (maybe longer) the RM took the money from my account and sent out the coin. In my case the issue price had increased but they took only the original cost. So i was annoyed and happy at the same time !

I log on to the RM site every day in the hope of seeing them there. They pretty much sold out within a day or two last year. I have a feeling that last years issue may have been a private commission with the RM selling a few they accidently over-minted... Haven't seen them on the RM site or any of the regular sites i use either. Best bet is to log on to Ebay - they seem to appear there even before they're minted !

I am happy for you to use any gold coins as money if you buy from me. Unfortunately, i cannot give change and only accept them at face value....

The trouble with stating that something is 'bullion condition' is that those two words are pretty much meaningless when describing a coin. It can range from being hit several times with a hammer to pristine / straight from the mint.... In most market places the terminology for vintage unblemished/unused items is new, old stock. I would suspect anyone advertising coins as just 'pre-owned' with no other description is using the phrase as a catch-all cover for sending out the all their sh*te. I'm a glass half empty person 😁

Many years ago i bought a George IV half crown on Ebay. After i'd paid for it i received a message from some random user informing me that the seller had purchased the coin 2 weeks ago for half what i had paid..... I responded with 'that's nice'. Many, many times i have won bids for items that were worth a lot more than i paid only to receive the 'sorry, i have lost the item / just noticed it's broken' message - normally after i've paid. Then comes the two week wait to get my money back. Even worse is when the seller pretends to send the item knowing that they are getting an interest free loan out of me whilst the 'item not received' process inches it's way to conclusion. 🙄

Sellers who use the 'Buy it Now or Best Offer' feature. I offered £17.50 for an item advertised at £20. The seller then sent a counter offer of £20. Needless to say i didn't bother.....

Quoting spot price is meaningless when it comes to silver coins. The reality is that silver coins sell at the current market rate, not at spot. Fag packet calculation; A gold coin bought at £205 in 2002 would now sell for £1,550. 45 Silver coins bought for £200 in 2002 would now sell for £25 x 45 = £1,125 or 45 silver coins bought in 2002 selling at £30 each (realistic for i.e. Brits) = £1,350 £200 in 2002 invested with compound Interest at 7% (average) PA = £775. Silver coins have always carried a numismatic premium which increases with age - not so much with gold coins that tracks spot much more closely. So gold presently appears to be a better investment but silver doesn't look too shabby when compared with money in the bank. This time next year silver could easily outperform gold in the long term.

Most of the Perth Mint bullion stuff seems to appreciate (or at least hold) in value and Kookaburras are a good place to start - another more recent run is the Wedge Tailed Eagle series - and even more recent the Dolphin series. In my experience these sell quickly on the secondary market and generally gain a premium within three or four years. As for the RM - the bullion coins (Britannia, Royal Arms, Valiant et al) will always sell but don't have the same potential for growth as the Perth Mint coins. They are not seen as collectables - more as a stacking option. I also believe that the majority of RM proof coins are a poor option although some of the proof Brits carry a premium and, on occasion, the odd non Brit proof. Steer well clear of any Royalty themed proofs, they will always depreciate rapidly. My tip if you go for proof coins is to look out for the older .958 Britannia sets which can be picked up for around £100. I believe they have the potential to beat inflation long term. Always look out for non-standard sizes (such as last years 1/4 ounce Britannia). If you can buy well they also have potential for growth due to limited production runs and the novelty value. Most importantly - but what you like. Or just ignore my ramblings now LawrenceChard has pointed out that i really should check which topic this was posted in 🙄

GF / AVF would be my take on it. Definitely not even close to EF.... I used to frequent regular coin auctions hosted by DNW who were very harsh with grading. The example in the OP would probably have been advertised as A/F. There is some subjectivity involved in grading coins but calling this one A/EF is a stretch ! I would expect an EF coin to be fully detailed but with rounded highlights.

Ignoring the almost nonsensical word posturing on the reverse and concentrating on the design elements - i think Silver Shield (GSM) has produced some of the best (almost lascivious) designs in the last few years..

It's an eye opener reading about people wanting certain labels and designations... Almost as though the coin is pretty much irrelevant. It takes the whole collector mentality to a different level. Maybe the answer is to forget about the pesky lump of metal and concentrate on buying a good quality printer, some holographic stickers and a load of empty holders. Don't forget that age old saying - 'buy the holder, not the coin' 😵

Why do we collect PMs ? Quite frankly pretty much any other commodity would give better returns than gold and silver. The last 24 months have seen massive price rises in anything from butter to bricks whilst PMs stagger along like a drunk walking home from the pub. I believe that underlying all other arguments is the conviction, for those who buy PMs, that gold and silver are real money and signify wealth. It is such a basic and historic belief that it has become ingrained in our collective DNA. It is used pretty much in all 'developed' countries to signify status - bronze, silver, gold anyone ? O/P The reality is both gold and silver are metals like any other - when demand is low spot drops, when demand is high it rises. The demand (especially for silver) is based on industrial use over and above collecting. Maybe industrial demand is down at the moment... Dropping into the rabbit hole of paper silver, market manipulation, shooting to the moon, SHTF scenarios et al is just something that gives stackers and collectors something to talk about rather than - 'ooh it's shiny' 😁

True story - I walked in to my bank to withdraw £5k in cash (Lloyds) and they refused. Told me i had to pre-arrange the withdrawal online. This was around 5 years ago. I was astounded at the hoops i had to jump to withdraw my own money. Similarly - trying to withdraw cash in the form of half a dozen £50 notes maybe 12 months ago caused no end of moaning by the cashiers. They ended up raiding multiple draws to try and find enough notes. Makes me suspect that most banks have very little inventory.

As far as i can tell it costs a minimum of $19 to get a bullion coin graded and slabbed + postage. Adding a 'first release' designation adds an additional $12 - far exceeding the value of the coin. There are probably price breaks for bulk orders. The bit that makes me laugh out loud is the option for a scratch-resistant holder (another $5) - surely that should be standard. I've probably missed other charges... Fair play to the companies doing it though - they have created a market from nothing. I'm just waiting to see the first graded and slabbed tomato sauce sachet - it's coming, trust me.

The problem with the silver proofs is that sold figures are considered a 'trade secret' by the RM. No-one knows how may of each coin were sold so anyone stating one coin is rarer than another is either guessing, outright lying or works at the RM. Both the 2018 and 2019 issues had issue limits of 15,000 for the acrylic packaging and were sold for £45. I like them and keep an eye out for them - often in job lots that work out at around a tenner each. I think the prices will eventually stabilise at circa £20. Ebay sold prices are currently ranging from £9 - £25 with no discernible letter preference.

I often see bullion coins, that have been slabbed, for sale at no premium over unslabbed coins. Who on earth is paying for these to be graded and why ? I recently bought some SP USA graded and slabbed quarters at spot - as far as i am aware the grading service cost more than i paid for the coins. Personally i would never pay for someone to tell me what their opinion of a coins condition is. Not while i have eyes and a modicum of sense. I can understand (but don't condone) having proof coins graded & encapsulated to preserve the finish and numismatic coins to authenticate them but slabbing bullion coins has no discernible purpose other than to waste money. Obviously this is my own curmudgeonly opinion and others may disagree. They're wrong 😁

RM will honour distance-selling regs so sending it back shouldn't be a problem. Your post has bought up a few talking points though - what would be the position if a purchaser bought a silver proof coin, had a good old fondle of it (sans capsule) then sent it back as no longer wanted ? What if someone stuck a silver proof coin in an atmosphere that caused tarnish and then send it back ? Maybe an insight into why RM prices are so high... In my opinion the tarnish you are seeing is the result of oxidation and is guaranteed to appear on all silver items at some point. Normally i wouldn't expect to see it for many years - especially in respect of encapsulated silver. Silver exposed to atmospheric pollution, however, can tarnish pretty much at any point from a few seconds (in relation to highly sulphuric conditions) to decades in ideal conditions.

Anyone who states that silver will make a loss because of the premium and VAT is being, at best, disingenuous. No-one sells silver coins at spot. Look on any forum / dealer website or Ebay to see the actual selling prices of modern silver coins. Prices will fluctuate depending on the intrinsic value of the metal but there will always be a premium involved when buying any manufactured goods. The premium on silver is generally higher than on gold - meaning silver is not as reliant on spot price manipulation movement.... Imagine both gold and silver prices plummeted 50% tomorrow - the higher premium on silver coins would act as a buffer. The gold coins trading at spot would be worth half of what they are today. Admittedly my attitude to gold/silver is based on a collector, rather than stacker, mentality. I never 'invest' in modern silver/gold coins unless i will actually enjoy owning them. Making an (eventual) profit is the aim but it's not my primary motivation... Knowing my luck i'll keel-over and my coins will get sold by family to a dealer for pennies with the resounding epitaph of 'there's no demand for that sort of stuff these days'......

Truthfully ? Both gold and silver are volatile and are not a particularly good investment. The majority consensus seems to be to invest in gold right now because of the VAT-free status. I would wager that anyone who purchased investment gold in the last 12 months is watching the spot-price drop right now and not feeling particularly clever. It's a similar picture for silver (with, historically, more volatility - which can equate to bigger losses/profits) My advice would be to look at buying PMs with a value over and above the intrinsic. If you can combine the value of the precious metal with a numismatic element this can off-set price changes. An example would be if you could purchase something like an Edward VII sovereign at bullion prices or earlier Britannia (.958 silver) coins. I'm not going to go into the rabbit hole of pure numismatics - that's collecting, not stacking. This only works if you have an exit strategy that doesn't involve selling your stack to a PM dealer. In that case spot price is everything and you'd just as well invest in coffee stocks. The ideal scenario is to be a collector with a stacker mentality... The pleasure of owning something can mitigate changes in spot.

I've always maintained that the UK grading criteria is based on wear above all else. Other 'blemishes' often added as an addendum to the grade. The US grading system seems to be all encompassing with each 'defect' knocking points off. As LawrenceChard has stated - in the UK you can find a coin listed as Unc with edge-knock - in the US (Sheldon scale) that edge knock would prohibit it from getting a top grade. Horses for courses. It wouldn't surprise me if most of my numismatic pieces got a 'details' description if sent to NGC for grading. Quite frankly i think you'd be hard-pressed to find any 300-400 year old circulating coin that hasn't has a rub or two 😁

To see the top dragon head it helps to squint !

I have to admit that i have taken close-up photos of coins (that look minty with the naked eye) to be listed on Ebay - and they look like they've been used as a dart board. Cue a slightly less 'personal' picture ! It's a balancing act of being as honest as possible without putting people off and with competing with the plethora of chancers using Ebay (i've never had a coin returned in 20 years of sporadic selling - yet) It's a balancing act - are you prepared to potentially forsake a couple of quid on the sale for less chance of a return or bad feedback.. Which reminds me of why i rarely sell on Ebay anymore; waiting for the feedback before i consider the money as mine. And some buyers who never leave it 🙄

As a collector i would love the market to become weaker - less demand means lower prices. As a speculator i would love the market to become stronger - more profit if i sell. Humans are a funny lot and i don't believe anyone can predict what will be popular in a few years. As for having the Monarchs portrait on a coin - for most people it's just a handy way to date a piece - the reverse design is usually where the appeal lies.

For most people the use of cheques stopped around the time Paypal became available.... As a teen with a cheque book i found it quite astounding that i was able to write a cheque out to 'Cash', walk in to my bank, and walk out with money. It was like winning the Pools (no lottery in those days). Until the County Court summons arrived 😕

I've just received an email from RM that payment for my set of Britannia's (ordered 4 months ago) has been stopped by my bank. They are asking for a different card even though i purchased coins from them last week with the original card. I'm now considering just ignoring the email and going without the Brits because by the time all this is sorted i'll probably end up with your returned set 🙄