1872 One Ounce 999 Gold Medallion London and the Lion Smithsonian Uncovered Medallion

[LawrenceChard]

1872 One Ounce 999 Gold Medallion London and the Lion Smithsonian Uncovered Medallion...

... or is it?

Obverse: Queen Victoria with tiara and veil.

CN 999 Anchor hallmark

"SI"

Reverse: A winged cherub, personification of London with shield and crown, helmeted Britannia standing with lion. St.Paul's Cathedral in background.

LONDON FEBRUARY 28TH 1872

 The Smithsonian Uncovered Design

 London & the Lion

Certificate of Ownership

At first, when I saw the photos of this gold medallion, I thought it was an original 1872 medallion.

There is nothing on the medallion to specifically state otherwise.

The anchor mark for Birmingham Assay Office is a clue. The C.M. is apparently for Commonwealth Mint. For some strange reason, there appears to be no date letter as part of the hallmark; this is unusual.

The "Certificate of Ownership" is interesting, but for the wrong reasons.

Fiirst, it does not name the owner, and does not appear to actually certify anything. It apperas to be three meaningless words.

It does not clearly state that the medallion is a modern reproduction, or whether there was a genuine original.

It fails to explain what the "uncovered design" was.

There is a facsimile signature of Daniel Penney, Managing Director of The London Mint Office, but no date.

As I feel sure that the LMO were not in existence in 1872, it seems that this is either a modern reproduction or interpretation of an original medla, or perhaps what an original medal would have looked like. 

I believe the wording of the "Certificate" is either deliberately or carelessly designed to give the misleading impression that this was an actual 1872 medallion. It certainly failes to make it clear that it is not.

I hope we have checked it with our Niton XRF machine!

😎

 

[Petra]

4 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

1872 One Ounce 999 Gold Medallion London and the Lion Smithsonian Uncovered Medallion...

... or is it?

Obverse: Queen Victoria with tiara and veil.

CN 999 Anchor hallmark

"SI"

Reverse: A winged cherub, personification of London with shield and crown, helmeted Britannia standing with lion. St.Paul's Cathedral in background.

LONDON FEBRUARY 28TH 1872

 The Smithsonian Uncovered Design

 London & the Lion

Certificate of Ownership

At first, when I saw the photos of this gold medallion, I thought it was an original 1872 medallion.

There is nothing on the medallion to specifically state otherwise.

The anchor mark for Birmingham Assay Office is a clue. The C.M. is apparently for Commonwealth Mint. For some strange reason, there appears to be no date letter as part of the hallmark; this is unusual.

The "Certificate of Ownership" is interesting, but for the wrong reasons.

Fiirst, it does not name the owner, and does not appear to actually certify anything. It apperas to be three meaningless words.

It does not clearly state that the medallion is a modern reproduction, or whether there was a genuine original.

It fails to explain what the "uncovered design" was.

There is a facsimile signature of Daniel Penney, Managing Director of The London Mint Office, but no date.

As I feel sure that the LMO were not in existence in 1872, it seems that this is either a modern reproduction or interpretation of an original medla, or perhaps what an original medal would have looked like. 

I believe the wording of the "Certificate" is either deliberately or carelessly designed to give the misleading impression that this was an actual 1872 medallion. It certainly failes to make it clear that it is not.

I hope we have checked it with our Niton XRF machine!

😎

 

Seen one says it was a private mint in 2012🤔🧐

[Zhorro]

Does look superb.

[CollectForFun]

Aren't all "Smithsonian" branded items on the market just copies of the original item from the Smithsonian collection?

This one seems to be an issue using just the design from the Smithsonian archive - or maybe there were even original dies that were copied but the below info which sheds some additional light does not mention the dies so presumably those who struck these medals just licensed the design created by George T. Morgan from the SI.

https://www.dublinmintoffice.ie/smithsoniangold

[pricha]

 Nice to see tat is not restricted to the lower classes.  This is High end tat. 😆 

[James32]

Is that the front or back of lion on show?

[LawrenceChard]

8 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

Aren't all "Smithsonian" branded items on the market just copies of the original item from the Smithsonian collection?

This one seems to be an issue using just the design from the Smithsonian archive - or maybe there were even original dies that were copied but the below info which sheds some additional light does not mention the dies so presumably those who struck these medals just licensed the design created by George T. Morgan from the SI.

https://www.dublinmintoffice.ie/smithsoniangold

Thanks for finding that and including the link

Order your Smithsonian’s Uncovered Design 'London and The Lion' Pure 24-Carat Gold Commemorative Medal today for €4,295!

Anyone want one for half price?

Might even throw in free postage!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

8 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

Aren't all "Smithsonian" branded items on the market just copies of the original item from the Smithsonian collection?

This one seems to be an issue using just the design from the Smithsonian archive - or maybe there were even original dies that were copied but the below info which sheds some additional light does not mention the dies so presumably those who struck these medals just licensed the design created by George T. Morgan from the SI.

https://www.dublinmintoffice.ie/smithsoniangold

 

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

Thanks for finding that and including the link

Order your Smithsonian’s Uncovered Design 'London and The Lion' Pure 24-Carat Gold Commemorative Medal today for €4,295!

Anyone want one for half price?

Might even throw in free postage!

😎

And of course, Dublin Mint Office is the Irish sister company of London Mint Orifice Office!

😎

2 hours ago, James32 said:

Is that the front or back of lion on show?

You can say tat again!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

8 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

Aren't all "Smithsonian" branded items on the market just copies of the original item from the Smithsonian collection?

This one seems to be an issue using just the design from the Smithsonian archive - or maybe there were even original dies that were copied but the below info which sheds some additional light does not mention the dies so presumably those who struck these medals just licensed the design created by George T. Morgan from the SI.

https://www.dublinmintoffice.ie/smithsoniangold

 

10 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Thanks for finding that and including the link

Order your Smithsonian’s Uncovered Design 'London and The Lion' Pure 24-Carat Gold Commemorative Medal today for €4,295!

Anyone want one for half price?

Might even throw in free postage!

😎

I read their sales blurb, and detected 3* missing apostrophies, and a bit of curious English / Irish?

After more than a hundred years hidden between the leaves of a book deep in the vaults of the Smithsonian Museum, “One of the most beautiful designs of all times” has finally been brought to life in pure 24-carat Gold. The discovery was a revelation and we are very excited to announce that at last, these wonderful images have finally been brought to life by The Smithsonian Institutute.

 These strictly limited commemoratives have all been struck to Proof quality, the highest possible standard which is unrivalled in sharpness, detail and finish, and come complete with an informative story card. 

George T. Morgan created this design while he worked at the British Royal Mint and took it with him as he ventured on his new career in the United States, meaning it was already in existence before the worlds is most known coin design – the Morgan Dollar. When you compare both designs, there are some instantly recognisable elements with the Lady Liberty – which makes the ‘London & the Lion’ motif, possibly the design that influenced what became one of the worlds most instantly recognisable coins – ‘The Morgan Dollar’.

 

Rest assured that you have no further commitments and your purchase is protected by The Dublin Mint Office 14 day “no quibble” guarantee. You have no further obligations.

* Arguably only 2!

😎

[CollectForFun]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

I read their sales blurb, and detected 3* missing apostrophies, and a bit of curious English / Irish?

That cringeworthy sales blurb itself is much worse than a few mistakes. 

By the way, “One of the most beautiful designs of all times”, in quotation marks of course, but says who? They don't bother to mention because of course that quote is just made up.

When you compare both designs, there are some instantly recognisable elements with the Lady Liberty - are there? Like, a female facing left?

Edited January 29, 2023 by CollectForFun

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, CollectForFun said:

That cringeworthy sales blurb itself is much worse than a few mistakes. 

By the way, “One of the most beautiful designs of all times”, in quotation marks of course, but says who? They don't bother to mention because of course that quote is just made up.

When you compare both designs, there are some instantly recognisable elements with the Lady Liberty - are there? Like, a female facing left?

Are you suggesting that one of our biggest "competitors" tells lies?

I don't even like the title "Lady Liberty".

Also, I have not yet seen the original drawings, but I imagine they are far better then the somewhat crudely styled engraving on the medallion.

😎

[CollectForFun]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

Are you suggesting that one of our biggest "competitors" tells lies?

I don't even like the title "Lady Liberty".

Also, I have not yet seen the original drawings, but I imagine they are far better then the somewhat crudely styled engraving on the medallion.

😎

His sketchbook is quite amazing actually

https://www.si.edu/object/george-t-morgan-sketchbook-ca-1860:nmah_1417932

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

His sketchbook is quite amazing actually

https://www.si.edu/object/george-t-morgan-sketchbook-ca-1860:nmah_1417932

I took a very quick look at your link, and am waiting for someone to find the England and the Lion drawing, although I guess it might not go under that name.

😎

[CollectForFun]

I couldn't find the drawing of this particular medal in this sketchbook. Either it is in another one which is not digitalised (as this one is dated ca. 1860, which does not match with year 1872 given for the medal), or it is in this one but on some of the pages that are not photographed (as it is apparent they unfortunately did not photograph both sides of every page).