Buying sovereigns

[StackemHigh]

Went to an auction house yesterday as i noticed a few sovereigns i was wanting. 

Unfortunately i feel this auction house is underhand and dishonest. 

Firstly hammer came down before fair warning was given, no chance for internet bidders or myself for that matter and i was there! Secondly auctioneer was taking bids from one person seated before announcing to the auction the starting price from the internet!  On a lovely Sydney 1918 sov the bidding took place so quickly i just held my hand up to bid as the description was being read called out a price which at the correct time before they had a chance to bid. My bid wasn't accepted and the auction carried on! More than fifty sovereigns went this way and i can't help but think at £260 each that the seller has been done or some sort of scam!

All i was able to get was a couple of 

I'm all for a fair deal just don't think that happened! 

It's the only auction i can get to so didn't complain. 

[Clockpuncher]

Does sound cheap but was there a massive buyers premium?

[StackemHigh]

37 minutes ago, Clockpuncher said:

Does sound cheap but was there a massive buyers premium?

20% buyers premium and a 25% sellers premium too!

I was going to trustworthy auction house but for now I'll just say established! 

[Clockpuncher]

The only possible response to those sorts of fees for selling bullion sovs:

 

[Murph]

Lots of auction houses charge those sort of rates.  Recently bidding online often results in higher rates when you have to go through intermediaries.

That's why they sell at prices around £260 or £280 so once you pay the 20% plus VAT you are paying around the bullion price.  Still slightly better than buying from dealers.  You're not going to find sovereigns at less than £350 from most dealers and not ones you can see and pick and choose from if buying online.

[StackemHigh]

Does this sound like some type of collusion? Illegal?

The more i think about it i'm feeling a bit angry and cheated. I don't think i shall be returning to use this auction house any more.

[sovereignsteve]

On 29/10/2020 at 14:24, StackemHigh said:

the bidding took place so quickly i just held my hand up to bid as the description was being read called out a price which at the correct time before they had a chance to bid. My bid wasn't accepted and the auction carried on!

not sure exactly what you mean here

4 hours ago, StackemHigh said:

Does this sound like some type of collusion? Illegal?

The more i think about it i'm feeling a bit angry and cheated. I don't think i shall be returning to use this auction house any more.

it is common for any one bidder, quite possibly a known regular, to either have bid the same amount for all the bullion coins or the auctioneer to use them as a sounding board for the opening bid.

Also, often, with these similar bullion coins, to ask for an opening bid of the exact amount that the first couple of coins sold for. The auctioneer may also know that the same bidder will probably want them all for the same amount.

It is lazy behaviour by the auctioneer who probably doesn't know the true value of all the coins on offer, and just wants to get through all of the lots as quickly as possible.

However, as you say, this probably amounts to favouring the regular buyer if it isn't strictly collusion. Although, it may well be!

[StackemHigh]

@sovereignsteve i was after a 1918 sovereign Indian  mint mark as it was in better condition than the one i already own.  Bidding started at £260 and i bid £270 but unfortunately my bid was overlooked and sold at £260. 

Sitting in the room and no more than 3m away from the auctioneer with an A5 sized bidding number raised i cannot see it being overlooked. 

I like being able to view in hand anything i buy at auction so internet auctions aren't really for me so I'll jave to travel 2 to 3 times as far to visit these. 

The more i think about it that's approximately  50 lots with nearly £19,000 spent how much have sellers lost?

 

[Robda1986]

I'd be inclined to go back there again but take a buzzer or a ringer with you for every time you bid or just say mine when you bid if they question you state your bids have been overlooked 

[sovereignsteve]

4 hours ago, StackemHigh said:

Bidding started at £260 and i bid £270 but unfortunately my bid was overlooked and sold at £260. 

Sitting in the room and no more than 3m away from the auctioneer with an A5 sized bidding number raised i cannot see it being overlooked.

Especially if you're not well known to that auctioneer, make sure you're noticed, especially early on if you want to bid on several lots. Feel free to stand up and hollow! Once you've bid once or twice, he'll keep looking at you from then on.

 

4 hours ago, StackemHigh said:

approximately  50 lots

He probably didn't fancy dawdling with so many, especially if they were all bullion (ish) coins. Probably didn't have much interest in coins personally.

[StackemHigh]

On 06/11/2020 at 17:50, sovereignsteve said:

Especially if you're not well known to that auctioneer, make sure you're noticed, especially early on if you want to bid on several lots. Feel free to stand up and hollow! Once you've bid once or twice, he'll keep looking at you from then on.

 

He probably didn't fancy dawdling with so many, especially if they were all bullion (ish) coins. Probably didn't have much interest in coins personally.

I have spoken to another regular at the auction house and they recognised the buyer as an ex colleague.  As such a report has been made to the police. They are looking into a fraud investigation.

[Hunter87]

Bloody hell! Keep us posted.