The most liquid coins??

[Serendipity]

@LawrenceChard, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your brilliant and informative article about the RMS Douro. I’m primarily a buyer of bullion coins but decided to take the plunge into numismatics yesterday and bought a Douro sovereign close to a thousand pounds from Baldwin’s. All their cheaper Douro sovereigns had sold out like hot cakes. Inspecting the Douro sovereign under a jeweller’s loupe is a mind-boggling experience because it’s like someone had access to HG Wells’ time machine and brought back a Victorian coin in mint condition. You can check out the Douro sovereign I bought on this link: https://www.baldwin.co.uk/product/victoria-sovereign-1871-6/

[5huggy]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

My cynicism has spread in recent years, and at times I feel like a conspiracy theorist. All the big multi-national corporations cheat us and lie to us, often by using hype and propaganda, not to mention political lobbyists, corruption, and more. I include the U.S. Government, and am unsure whether Russia and Putin are better or worse the America and Trump.

BTW! @LawrenceChard  you are not ALONE in those thoughts-

Just look at the "surreptitious" REPO funding that is currently being performed, expanded out further to 14 days, 30 days etc etc - 😵

then the real derivatives of the like of HSBC and Deutsche bank ! OMG! - IT CAN NEVER - MATHEMATICALLY be paid! 

The response  = (IMHO under the cover of covid- 19)  QE 3/4/5/ etc  - - purchasing power/store of value  of "Fiat" failing extremely fast! 😲

But "this time IS DIFFERENT!" (They would have, and trying to make, the general populous, believe) -IMHO "deflation initially , as appears to be occurring right NOW" --- followed by "HYPERINFLATION"!!

Wiemar republic on "STEROIDS " as previously attested to - the speed of "INTERNET COMMS" and GLOBAL!

Just ask Rochelle and your daughter what I said to them at the London coin show as to where "I think this is about to GO!"

Bert wer duz aye NO! 😉

[LawrenceChard]

20 minutes ago, 5huggy said:

BTW! @LawrenceChard  you are not ALONE in those thoughts-

Just look at the "surreptitious" REPO funding that is currently being performed, expanded out further to 14 days, 30 days etc etc - 😵

then the real derivatives of the like of HSBC and Deutsche bank ! OMG! - IT CAN NEVER - MATHEMATICALLY be paid! 

The response  = (IMHO under the cover of covid- 19)  QE 3/4/5/ etc  - - purchasing power/store of value  of "Fiat" failing extremely fast! 😲

But "this time IS DIFFERENT!" (They would have, and trying to make, the general populous, believe) -IMHO "deflation initially , as appears to be occurring right NOW" --- followed by "HYPERINFLATION"!!

Wiemar republic on "STEROIDS " as previously attested to - the speed of "INTERNET COMMS" and GLOBAL!

Just ask Rochelle and your daughter what I said to them at the London coin show as to where "I think this is about to GO!"

Bert wer duz aye NO! 😉

I will ask,

I didn't manage to decrypt your last line, though.

[5huggy]

3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I will ask,

I didn't manage to decrypt your last line, though.

but what do i know? 😉🤣

[LawrenceChard]

1 minute ago, zhoutonged said:

Google censor a lot of content, I use DuckDuckGo when I struggle to get results from Google. Do you remember ask jeeves? 🤣

Yes, I do sometimes use DDG, but sadly Google is still the best for now.

Ask Jeeves was awful, IMO.

[5huggy]

sometimes I, through knowledge , use UTC not OTC to discover, info and the opposite opinion /facts to MSM!😉

[silenceissilver]

16 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Yes, I do sometimes use DDG, but sadly Google is still the best for now.

Ask Jeeves was awful, IMO.

 

I use DDG too, sometimes they don't find something Google does, then you add a space to your search term and then g! and it will redirect the search to goolge but you won't get the results from your personalised google bubble.

I once bought a coin on holiday in Austria, I said I want to buy a one ounce coin and they only asked "Schilling or Euro?", so the Philharmonic was a given (They had all the usual coins too, of course). I bought the Schilling coin, it cost about 10 Euros less but I would also have bought it had been 10 Euros more. It seems people want the current currency as a backup. That doesn't make any sense particularly as we now see the early days of a crisis at the end of which I struggle not to see the Euro collapsing.

I'm also under the impression that the Vreneli is the Sovereign of the German speaking countries  and maybe further central European countries like Poland and Hungary, whereas in Southern Europe the Sovereign is more liquid.

On a world wide level the ranking of the market share of the one ouncers (30g) is (according to Kettner Edelmetalle)

1 Krugerrand

2 Maple

3 Kangaroo

4 Philharmonic

5 Britannia

6 Buffalo

7 Eagle

8 Panda

 

 

[Seth]

31 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

 

I use DDG too, sometimes they don't find something Google does, then you add a space to your search term and then g! and it will redirect the search to goolge but you won't get the results from your personalised google bubble.

I once bought a coin on holiday in Austria, I said I want to buy a one ounce coin and they only asked "Schilling or Euro?", so the Philharmonic was a given (They had all the usual coins too, of course). I bought the Schilling coin, it cost about 10 Euros less but I would also have bought it had been 10 Euros more. It seems people want the current currency as a backup. That doesn't make any sense particularly as we now see the early days of a crisis at the end of which I struggle not to see the Euro collapsing.

I'm also under the impression that the Vreneli is the Sovereign of the German speaking countries  and maybe further central European countries like Poland and Hungary, whereas in Southern Europe the Sovereign is more liquid.

On a world wide level the ranking of the market share of the one ouncers (30g) is (according to Kettner Edelmetalle)

1 Krugerrand

2 Maple

3 Kangaroo

4 Philharmonic

5 Britannia

6 Buffalo

7 Eagle

8 Panda

 

 

So sovereigns didn't even make it into he top 5, yet I ranked them as one of the most liquid gold coins after the Krugerrand, based on experience of buying gold coins and bullion/bars in every single counry I ever been to on either holiday, ir for work.

[silenceissilver]

8 minutes ago, Seth said:

So sovereigns didn't even make it into he top 5, yet I ranked them as one of the most liquid gold coins after the Krugerrand, based on experience of buying gold coins and bullion/bars in every single counry I ever been to on either holiday, ir for work.

No, sorry that's a misunderstanding, this list is only about one ounce coins (30g in the case of the Panda)

[Seth]

33 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

No, sorry that's a misunderstanding, this list is only about one ounce coins (30g in the case of the Panda)

I hate to tell you but 30g is neither 1 ounce, nor 1 troy ounce, 1 ounce is 28.3g, 1 troy ounce is 31.1g.  I'd love to meet your dealer if they think 1 ounce is 30g.

[sovereignsteve]

4 minutes ago, Seth said:

I hate to tell you but 30g is neither 1 ounce, nor 1 troy ounce, 1 ounce is 28.3g, 1 troy ounce is 31.1g.  I'd love to meet your dealer if they think 1 ounce is 30g.

Talk to the Chinese

[silenceissilver]

5 minutes ago, Seth said:

I hate to tell you but 30g is neither 1 ounce, nor 1 troy ounce, 1 ounce is 28.3g, 1 troy ounce is 31.1g.  I'd love to meet your dealer if they think 1 ounce is 30g.

For Christ's sake, they are all ca one Troy ounce and modern bullion coins that's why the Panda is included the list.

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, Seth said:

So sovereigns didn't even make it into he top 5, yet I ranked them as one of the most liquid gold coins after the Krugerrand, based on experience of buying gold coins and bullion/bars in every single counry I ever been to on either holiday, ir for work.

I am surprised about Britannia listiing ahead of Eagles, but maybe the RM has finally got it arse into gear and become competitive.

I smiled at the comment about sovereigns not making into the top 5, because of course everyone knows that sovereigns are not a one ounce coin, don't they?

But as often, common knowledge is only almost right, which is another way of saying wrong.

For years, we had got used to getting asked on a weekly basis about one ounce sovereigns, which of course did not exist.

We also used to get people asking why sovereigns were so much cheaper than Krugerrands, and had to point out they they weighed a lot less.

Then along came the "New Zealand Mint", with a "One Ounce Gold Sovereign", which I thought was a clever piece of marketing, and a bit of fun.

Of course it was the Pacific Sovereign, 

issued by Fiji. I see from the EXIF data, that we took this photo on 

October 6th 2009.

From memory, I think NZ Mint (which is not a mint) had these struck by Perth Mint, but this may be incorrect. Later, they had some struck in Europe, possibly by Degussa or Valcambi; I don't remember which.

We fully intended to start buying these, but demand levels dropped back quite quickly.

I believe the Royal Mint were unhappy at the time about the use of the word sovereign being applied to something they were not making, and in retrospect it would have been smart for them to "invent" one ounce gold sovereigns before someone else did.

While we could argue that this would spoil the purity of the word's usage, history and heritage, the U.S. Mint "invented" one ounce gold eagles back in 1986, (or should I say MCMLXXXVI). It can and does cause some slight confusion with the original $10 gold eagles, but that's not the end of the world. There was no reason that the RM could not have introduced a one ounce gold sovereign, except fo inertia, and that they probably never thought about it.

[LawrenceChard]

19 hours ago, 5huggy said:

@LawrenceChard - after 35 years in the I.T. industry and using IT daily and some times excessively - I concur totally - in that I hate it (google) 

times past bar (person) told you the bill while STARTING to pull the first pint!

 

If I am shopping, I often try to calculate the approximate or exact total before I get to the checkout, or as a mental exercise while my stuff is being scanned (I never, ever use self service).

If I manage to find the exact amount of money (I still use cash), I will play at beiing a smart-arse, by handing it over before I am asked, saying, "will you accept £41.86?".

Sometimes I get it wrong, but it's still good fun, and I am convinced that the mental exercise is beneficial.

 

[Roy]

I do the exact thing! My wife thinks it's magic.

Perhaps you also played darts as a young man 😊

[5huggy]

11 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

If I am shopping, I often try to calculate the approximate or exact total before I get to the checkout, or as a mental exercise while my stuff is being scanned (I never, ever use self service).

If I manage to find the exact amount of money (I still use cash), I will play at beiing a smart-arse, by handing it over before I am asked, saying, "will you accept £41.86?".

Sometimes I get it wrong, but it's still good fun, and I am convinced that the mental exercise is beneficial.

 

Just brilliant!  - I love it - its always good to stretch the "Important muscle" 😉🤣

I must admit I have done something similar - but it was because it was required!

The cashier had "fat finger trouble" and the price in electrons was about £40 premium to the upside - SHE HAD NO IDEA! omg!

I pointed out that the items X+Y  +Z was XYZ sum total and her reply was er NO! the till says! Holy Flip! - I was stunned and in disbelief -

she then used a calculator from the side of the till (must have been there as a power outage backup 😉)  - and procede to say as she punched the calculator key - "I will prove to you that the till is right! 

To further my AMAZEMENT - she then re did the calculator twice more - because she now did not believe that the result she was getting was my SUM!

SO there is hope for me YET! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[Seth]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

I am surprised about Britannia listiing ahead of Eagles, but maybe the RM has finally got it arse into gear and become competitive.

I smiled at the comment about sovereigns not making into the top 5, because of course everyone knows that sovereigns are not a one ounce coin, don't they?

But as often, common knowledge is only almost right, which is another way of saying wrong.

For years, we had got used to getting asked on a weekly basis about one ounce sovereigns, which of course did not exist.

We also used to get people asking why sovereigns were so much cheaper than Krugerrands, and had to point out they they weighed a lot less.

Then along came the "New Zealand Mint", with a "One Ounce Gold Sovereign", which I thought was a clever piece of marketing, and a bit of fun.

Of course it was the Pacific Sovereign, 

issued by Fiji. I see from the EXIF data, that we took this photo on 

October 6th 2009.

From memory, I think NZ Mint (which is not a mint) had these struck by Perth Mint, but this may be incorrect. Later, they had some struck in Europe, possibly by Degussa or Valcambi; I don't remember which.

We fully intended to start buying these, but demand levels dropped back quite quickly.

I believe the Royal Mint were unhappy at the time about the use of the word sovereign being applied to something they were not making, and in retrospect it would have been smart for them to "invent" one ounce gold sovereigns before someone else did.

While we could argue that this would spoil the purity of the word's usage, history and heritage, the U.S. Mint "invented" one ounce gold eagles back in 1986, (or should I say MCMLXXXVI). It can and does cause some slight confusion with the original $10 gold eagles, but that's not the end of the world. There was no reason that the RM could not have introduced a one ounce gold sovereign, except fo inertia, and that they probably never thought about it.

If you go o the U.S. mins website there have a list of countries - quite a long list, that they are not allowed to sell their products tp.

And people in Asia have money, most of my teachers in Asia owned their own homes, granted for expat teachers they where flat/condos/apartments, but in counties like Hong Kong, Singapore and even Malaysia - basically anywhere in Asia where there is srict laws on the type of property foreigners can own, and even who they can buy it from, and minimum value laws, the cost of buying a flat/condos/apartment out there is in the high 6 figures low 7 figures - one of my geography teachers condo cost over £1.5 million in the 90's in Singapore, you can buy property in London for what properties foriegners are allowed to buy out there, their minimum salaries are high 4 figures a month, when these people, even when the locals buy gold it is minimum buy the ounce.

[LawrenceChard]

23 minutes ago, 5huggy said:

Just brilliant!  - I love it - its always good to stretch the "Important muscle" 😉🤣

I must admit I have done something similar - but it was because it was required!

The cashier had "fat finger trouble" and the price in electrons was about £40 premium to the upside - SHE HAD NO IDEA! omg!

I pointed out that the items X+Y  +Z was XYZ sum total and her reply was er NO! the till says! Holy Flip! - I was stunned and in disbelief -

she then used a calculator from the side of the till (must have been there as a power outage backup 😉)  - and procede to say as she punched the calculator key - "I will prove to you that the till is right! 

To further my AMAZEMENT - she then re did the calculator twice more - because she now did not believe that the result she was getting was my SUM!

SO there is hope for me YET! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

She was probably on National Mimimum Wage, and overpaid!

[5huggy]

3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

She was probably on National Mimimum Wage, and overpaid!

Highlights "underfunding" in the education system😉🙄🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[LawrenceChard]

25 minutes ago, Seth said:

If you go o the U.S. mins website there have a list of countries - quite a long list, that they are not allowed to sell their products tp.

And people in Asia have money, most of my teachers in Asia owned their own homes, granted for expat teachers they where flat/condos/apartments, but in counties like Hong Kong, Singapore and even Malaysia - basically anywhere in Asia where there is srict laws on the type of property foreigners can own, and even who they can buy it from, and minimum value laws, the cost of buying a flat/condos/apartment out there is in the high 6 figures low 7 figures - one of my geography eachers condo cost over £1.5 million in the 90's in Singapore, you could buy property in London for what properties foriegners are allowed to buy out there, their minimum salaries are high 4 figures a month, when these people, even when the locals buy gold it is minimum buy the ounce.

The U.S. Mints website?

But I just noticed a typed listiing in error for listing.

Some countries still have strict exchange control laws, which also extends to gold or other precious metals or valuables.

Some of the restrictions are political, others are protectionist.

The U.S. market is big, which is why I am surprised that eagles are not higher.

Even civilised countries like Canada and Australia have restrictions or import duties on gold coins other than "fine" gold, so that traditional circulation coins alloys of .900 or .916 are excluded or taxed.

 

[Seth]

Just now, LawrenceChard said:

The U.S. Mints website?

But I just noticed a typed listiing in error for listing.

Some countries still have strict exchange control laws, which also extends to gold or other precious metals or valuables.

Some of the restrictions are political, others are protectionist.

The U.S. market is big, which is why I am surprised that eagles are not higher.

Even civilised countries like Canada and Australia have restrictions or import duties on gold coins other than "fine" gold, so that traditional circulation coins alloys of .900 or .916 are excluded or taxed.

 

And America has a lot of countries that they have political issues with and some form of sanctions against, not to mention that they are extremely protectionist.

[LawrenceChard]

7 minutes ago, 5huggy said:

Highlights "underfunding" in the education system😉🙄🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Or possibly a shortage of teachers with skills in English, arithmetic, mathematics, or logic, possibly because of under-investment in education a generation ago.

[LawrenceChard]

2 minutes ago, Seth said:

And America has a lot of countries that they have political issues with and some form of sanctions against, not to mention that they are extremely protectionist.

Yes, it applies to many third world countries, especially those with corrupt and unstable heads of government.

[silenceissilver]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

I am surprised about Britannia listiing ahead of Eagles, but maybe the RM has finally got it arse into gear and become competitive.

Actually, I have just watched their video about it again, it's a bit unclear if this ranking reflects the world wide or their own sales figures. At one point they refer to one and then to the other. Probably it actually only is their own sales figures. I would also be surprised to see the Eagle behind the Britannia.

 

[LawrenceChard]

8 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

Actually, I have just watched their video about it again, it's a bit unclear if this ranking reflects the world wide or their own sales figures. At one point they refer to one and then to the other. Probably it actually only is their own sales figures. I would also be surprised to see the Eagle behind the Britannia.

 

The title is revealing "The 8 best gold coins in the world".

Perhaps they are 8 of the most popular investment gold coins, but my list of the 8 best would not be the same, and would probably not include any of the ones in the photo.

... and I thought Americans were parochial!