Gold Import- Paying/ Claiming back the VAT

[richatthecroft]

Hi all.  So, I bought a Gold 1/2 Onza Libertad coin from a Forum member in the USA.

It was delivered yesterday. Prior to delivery I was not asked to pay any charges by Parcelforce- they just delivered it. The parcel did have a label attached stating charges were to be paid prior to delivery. 

Today, I received a letter asking me to pay the VAT plus the Parcelforce clearance fee. 

My question is twofold: 

Do I pay it? After all I’ve got it in my filthy mitts, and after all UK plc is a big firm! (I am aware of course, that HMRC are like Elephants and never forget!).  Acknowledging that if I don’t pay it, I’m not depriving HMRC of anything as Gold for investment is VAT free. 

Or secondly

I guess I’ll have to pay the cash over, but when paid over, how do I claim my cash back?

below is the main body of the letter:

 

[sixgun]

You put Gold - what was this item you imported?

[richatthecroft]

6 minutes ago, sixgun said:

You put Gold - what was this item you imported?

1/2 Onza gold Libertad 

[sixgun]

The item was gold? - there are 1/2oz silver and gold coins.

[richatthecroft]

Sorry, 1/2 Onza Gold 

[Goldhooked]

That's the first time I've ever heard of Parcelforce delivering before their fees being paid!

If no VAT is due then technically you don't owe anything.  Not sure what to suggest really.  Try writing to HMRC?  If not you might have to face them in court but if you don't owe anything then surely you would win?

[sixgun]

NO VAT on gold coins

[StackSellRepeat]

This actually happened to me once i received a package many years ago, it had the sticker on the package with the DO NOT RELEASE UNTILL CUSTOM CHARGES HAVE BEEN PAID WITH THE ADDED FEES ON DISPLAY but I never received any letter from them by post declaring I should pay any fees or nor have I since 🤫

[sixgun]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/investment-gold-coins-and-vat-notice-70121a#sect3

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/680666/Table_1_-_The_European_Commission_List.pdf

On the pdf document is the 1/2oz onza from Mexico.

NO VAT to pay.

[Goldhooked]

Just found a similar incident here - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=96764

Someone further down the post suggests Parcelforce won't chase.

[richatthecroft]

13 minutes ago, sixgun said:

NO VAT on gold coins

I understand that, but HMRC have raised a VAT bill against me, and have asked Parcelforce to collect the money prior to delivery.

For whatever reason (a cockup perhaps?) Parcelforce delivered before taking the HMRC payment. 

I know now thanks  @sixgun , that the coin is definitively exempt from VAT, but the bill is raised nevertheless. 

I guess I want an easy life, so might be better to pay it over, then claim back? Which form do I use? 

Or

It looks like @StackSellRepeat and @Goldhooked have the answer here? - say nothing no one will chase? = even easier life!

 

[sixgun]

Return the bill - you do not accept the bill. Take a copy and return the bill.

[Goldhooked]

Just now, sixgun said:

There is nothing to chase - they are charging VAT when nothing applies. NO VAT on these gold coins.

We know that.  But that might not stop PF or HMRC chasing and needing it to be spelt out to them.

[richatthecroft]

Just now, sixgun said:

There is nothing to chase - they are charging VAT when nothing applies. NO VAT on these gold coins.

Got you, I’ll do nothing- I have the Gold 1/2 Onza under the mattress. Amen

[sixgun]

1 minute ago, richatthecroft said:

Got you, I’ll do nothing- I have the Gold 1/2 Onza under the mattress. Amen

No - don't do nothing. Send the bill back. If you got a bill for someone else you will send the bill back. If you get a bill that is wrong, you send it back. Add a note attached to the bill. No VAT to pay. Investment gold coins (VAT Notice 701/21A) Mexican 1/2 onza gold coin.

[richatthecroft]

Just now, sixgun said:

No - don't do nothing. Send the bill back. If you got a bill for someone else you will send the bill back. If you get a bill that is wrong, you send it back. Add a note attached to the bill. No VAT to pay. Investment gold coins (VAT Notice 701/21A) Mexican 1/2 onza gold coin.

Ok, sounds good, it’ll cost me a stamp though, shall I raise a bill to them for the stamp do you think? 😎

[Goldhooked]

3 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

I guess I want an easy life, so might be better to pay it over, then claim back? Which form do I use? 

Paying and re-claiming could be a ball-ache.  I haven't done it for a while but it used to take weeks for them to process the form and send a refund.

[Roy]

It's under the mattress but it's going to keep you awake at night 😉

At least contact someone and get a record that you have tried. You can do it online.

 

 

 

[richatthecroft]

1 minute ago, Goldhooked said:

Paying and re-claiming could be a ball-ache.  I haven't done it for a while but it used to take weeks for them to process the form and send a refund.

That’s exactly my thoughts

[richatthecroft]

Update: 

I contacted HMRC helpline: Essentially they told me something we all already know: Under the HMRC VAT  Notice 701/21 Section 8.1 then the item is not subject to VAT.  The advisor tells me that Parcelforce haven’t followed procedure, and for me to contact Parcelforce and tell them to enter the Transaction Code 4000073 and this code will release it from any VAT liability. 

I contacted Parcelforce national helpline, give him the details and they tell me that ‘it must have slipped through the system, and should have been pulled out, and the charges raised prior to delivery’.

So I say, well I have the parcel now.

He then says, well it’s liable to the charge. So I tell him the outcome of the contact with HMRC, and that if he enters the code 4000073,then we’re both good to go. He says he can’t do that, and I need to contact the Delivery Depot directly. 

I’ll update in due course. 

 

[JunkBond]

15 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

He says he can’t do that,

 

Typical...

[Pete]

There should not have been any VAT charged and the rules for gold are pretty clear.
You can appeal the invoice on-line and you will be refunded.

However you may still be faced with a post office fixed clearance fee which they charge for pre-paying ( on a computer ) your VAT.
This would not seem fair since no VAT is due and that is their error so you should argue that there is no fee chargeable.

This all assumes of course that the sender filled out correctly the customs declaration and description.

[richatthecroft]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

You can appeal the invoice on-line and you will be refunded.

Pete, could you signpost me to the webpage 

[Pete]

Unfortunately the web link I used 3 years ago to successfully appeal incorrect VAT on coins doesn't work any more.
You can start here though - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-clearance-hub-for-goods-entering-leaving-or-transiting-the-eu

I found their service very good and quite quick.
I dealt with Coventry International Hub Border Force importing coins sent from Australia

[richatthecroft]

Cheers Pete, thanks for your time