SOS Help.... Can Anyone give information

[Goldhooked]

21 minutes ago, ronny said:

All the Chinese fakes and others are all bigger in size . None of them are the dimensions that mine is

What are you comparing with? Other gold bars?

 

[dicker]

An interesting bar....

Would I touch it...no, but that’s because I treat gold ad low risk  

Not sure about anyone else but something smells a bit fishy about this

[jonrms]

I am proud to have been able to say I can find a bar or round within 24 hours,  I have alot of books and contacts who I can turn to. But I know that this bar was bought by the owner 10 years ago. In the UK but at the time where fakes were very difficult to spot. 

 

I want to believe it's real but I am torn because of no makers mark, the fact that it has NO COA. The fact that the box was said to have been it's original box. 

The wording is wrong and my only advice is this

1) accept a offer from from BBP

2)Keep it and try to keep looking into it.

3)send it to a Assay Office for guarantee that it's gold

I was very hopeful that someone from around the world would have seen this bar. And with loads of us all searching we can't come up with a genuine bar ( sorry Plaque )

[matrawr]

I vote specific gravity test!

 

[ronny]

2 hours ago, jonrms said:

I am proud to have been able to say I can find a bar or round within 24 hours,  I have alot of books and contacts who I can turn to. But I know that this bar was bought by the owner 10 years ago. In the UK but at the time where fakes were very difficult to spot. 

 

I want to believe it's real but I am torn because of no makers mark, the fact that it has NO COA. The fact that the box was said to have been it's original box. 

The wording is wrong and my only advice is this

1) accept a offer from from BBP

2)Keep it and try to keep looking into it.

3)send it to a Assay Office for guarantee that it's gold

I was very hopeful that someone from around the world would have seen this bar. And with loads of us all searching we can't come up with a genuine bar ( sorry Plaque )

A plaque in the dictionary is to commemorate a person/event which this is. It's not a bullion bar but a limited edition plaque. Wording might not make 100% sense but maybe did to the maker. 

[ronny]

Thank you for your help Jonathon and I will keep the bar/plaque and possibly send it away for drilling. If I find anything of interest I will let you know.

[ronny]

5 hours ago, Goldhooked said:

What are you comparing with? Other gold bars?

 

yes. the ones I've found are all at least 10mm longer and 5mm wider and thicker. 

[jonrms]

I agree with the above meaning of Plaque but this is double sided. More a bar.

I hope it is proven to be solid gold. 

[ronny]

3 hours ago, jonrms said:

I am proud to have been able to say I can find a bar or round within 24 hours,  I have alot of books and contacts who I can turn to. But I know that this bar was bought by the owner 10 years ago. In the UK but at the time where fakes were very difficult to spot. 

 

I want to believe it's real but I am torn because of no makers mark, the fact that it has NO COA. The fact that the box was said to have been it's original box. 

The wording is wrong and my only advice is this

1) accept a offer from from BBP

2)Keep it and try to keep looking into it.

3)send it to a Assay Office for guarantee that it's gold

I was very hopeful that someone from around the world would have seen this bar. And with loads of us all searching we can't come up with a genuine bar ( sorry Plaque )

 

 

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Added 0 minutes later...

Don't let this bar beat you Jonathon. The answers are out there lol

[jonrms]

2 minutes ago, ronny said:

yes. the ones I've found are all at least 10mm longer and 5mm wider and thicker. 

I told you yesterday of a few bars almost identical in size, 

[jonrms]

Ronny I am not giving up. 

 

Ps how are you finding the group? 

Have you seen the deals etc 

[ronny]

yes I have Jonathon Thank you. I was reading a old email from Rob halliday, chief at BBP where he says they are particularly cautious of anything from eBay and spoke about many fakes online but was more than happy to purchase this as pure gold. 

[ronny]

Jonathon would you agree if this was a fake it would be a very very good one to fool us and BBP and there various testing techniques. 

 

[jonrms]

Yes I would agree. It would need to be thick plated. 

[ronny]

can't see someone making fakes this good and in very low numbers. Maybe this is one of very few struck by a private maker in the USA. That's my theory.

[jonrms]

It was made over 10 years ago. 5 or 10g sold with a price tag if 1oz. Great easy way yo make alot of money. 

 

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Added 0 minutes later...

The Chinese have been doing this for along time, fooling loads of professionals.  

[ronny]

So where are they ?

 

[jonrms]

Ronny,  I am trying to help. 

It took me 2 seconds of a Google search. This is 1 of thousand of websites. I really suggest you read up. Sorry if it's harsh but I have done nothing but help you. Even suggesting you join this site where there are people from around the world. 

Here is one link.    

https://www.celticgold.eu/en/gold-university/fake-gold-bars.html

Here is why a XRF is not 100%

https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/insight/spot-fake-bullion/

[ilovesilverireallydo]

59 minutes ago, ronny said:

can't see someone making fakes this good and in very low numbers. Maybe this is one of very few struck by a private maker in the USA. That's my theory.

there are plenty Chinese ones. Even the Royal Canadian Mint branch got taken last year by fakes. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/fake-gold-not-ours-mint-says-1.4380705

[ilovesilverireallydo]

For those interested - XRF fails on MANY coins. For example I have had 40% Kennedy halves tested by three separate high end XRFs used by bullion dealers in the UK - all three failed - the highest rated the coin at 90% while the lowest came out at 80%. 

For those who know - that coin is fairly thin and only has a light coating of silver - and yet the XRF failed. So for bars that you want to "pass" off, 1mm depth would suffice to fake an xrf. My main dealer insists on drill tests for bars over 1 ounce and uses Sigma Verifier for most other bullion. They never rely on xrf alone, and use weight tests as well. 

[jonrms]

Neither are the REAL bars...... So that is out the window.

 

 

Known within the industry simply as RCM bars, the Royal Canadian Mint 1 oz gold bar is a highly respected and recognized gold bullion bar globally. RCM 1 oz Gold Bar dimensions are approximately 50 mm long x 28 mm wide x 1.5 mm in depth.

 

Your bar is 40 long 23 wide and 1 3/4 thick.

thats 10mm smaller and .25mm thicker.

So you cant look at it like that.

At the end of the day its what do you want to do with it..... You cant sell it and claim its legal and genuine because you have no proof.

You can sell it to a bullion dealer and let them take the risk.

You can hold onto it and keep digging.

No manufactured bars are identical!!!

 

[jonrms]

Here is another size for the Perth mint.

https://www.thegoldbullion.co.uk/buy-gold-bullion/perth-mint-1-oz-gold-bar/

• Width: 41mm
• Height: 24mm
• Thickness: 1.7mm

[ronny]

Thanks Jonathon, 

57 minutes ago, jonrms said:

Ronny,  I am trying to help. 

It took me 2 seconds of a Google search. This is 1 of thousand of websites. I really suggest you read up. Sorry if it's harsh but I have done nothing but help you. Even suggesting you join this site where there are people from around the world. 

Here is one link.    

https://www.celticgold.eu/en/gold-university/fake-gold-bars.html

Here is why a XRF is not 100%

https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/insight/spot-fake-bullion/

Sorry if I've said something wrong ? I do appreciate your help Thank you.

[jonrms]

@ronny 

You didn't say anything wrong. I pointed out the above because your argument about size is irrelevant as demonstrated above.

And as you can see the XRF is easily fooled. This is why if you watch a Video from @BackyardBullion with the Edinburgh Assay office, you will hear first hand how the Assay office refuses to rely on a XRF and insists on a Drill test. You will hear it from the Master Assayer himself.

The size is varied on ALL the Chinese fakes. So you cant use that as a argument. The weight might show up as 31.1 which is fine. But your stuck with a decision to make.

At the end of the day. Even a one off bar appears somewhere. Many of the Fake replica bars made and produced are still not discovered. And its only when people like you bring it to the attention of the community can they be discovered.

Someone might be sitting with a bar just like yours, and it could be genuine.

But given the box, the lack of COA and the fact that there is nothing showing on any of the WTC or 911 sites of remembrance I am very sceptical.  

Also the fact that it says a limited edition, would imply that it could be 100 at least. And where are they?

So don't take what I said the wrong way. I am looking and trying hard. But don't rely on one thing. We already ruled out the XRF as 100% proof. And you don't have a certificate saying its genuine. We have ruled out the bar size as reliable.  You left with a few choices, Wait and hold onto it. Sell it to BBP who want it. or have it tested at an assay office.

If your in no rush to sell, I suggest keep looking and also do a volume test.

[ronny]

Thanks Jonathon, I'm happy to keep the bar and continue searching for the time being and maybe look at other options in the future. I'm trying to find the person I sourced it from and should find out if that's possible in the next few days and if I'm successful could be very useful.