I have acquired an 1890 Carson City Morgan Dollar that I think is a replica/fake. Any thoughts are welcome.

[entsor]

I have acquired an 1890 Carson City Morgan Dollar that I think is a replica/fake. Any thoughts/opinions/comments are welcome.

The images are of the coin in question.

It just doesn't look and feel right. I haven't done any type of silver testing as of yet.

It weighs 26.53g (0.2g off the stated weight) The thickness and diameter with non-digital calipers seems good.

I know it is hard to tell from images alone but is there anything I should be looking for on this coin to help me decide if it's a fake.

[James32]

@dicker @AndrewSL76 @Mrpound

One of these gentlemen are sure to know. 

[entsor]

Thanks @James32 I don’t see too many of these coins so it’s hard to tell. 

[AndrewSL76]

Without seeing it in hand it is hard to say. Looks good to me though. Nice coin. 

[entsor]

Thanks @AndrewSL76.

[dicker]

Im with you that it looks a bit off.  
 

- Rim and denticles 

- Overall tone (although this is subjective based on the photos)

- Liberty’s ear lobe

- Corn sprigs in Liberties hair

- Possibly a pop mark close to Liberty’s lips

- Some of the eagles feathers don’t look right - top left tip of the eagles wing as an example

You are right to be cautious it’s the rarest of the 1890 Morgan’s with a mintage of around 2M.

Best

Dicker

[entsor]

Thanks @dicker. It’s quite a pickle. Looking just good enough to be genuine while providing a small amount of doubt. If this works out to be a replica it is a good one.

[dicker]

26 minutes ago, entsor said:

Thanks @dicker. It’s quite a pickle. Looking just good enough to be genuine while providing a small amount of doubt. If this works out to be a replica it is a good one.

Personally, I would not buy this coin because of the red flags above.  Sorry, I should have said that in my reply above.  

[Petra]

Allegedly the fake ones have different/bigger space between the letters of the word PLURIBUS🤔

[ArgentSmith]

Slabbed F12 for comparison 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175747210716?chn=ps&_ul=GB&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=175747210716&targetid=1403035015187&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045802&poi=1007089&campaignid=19697487526&mkgroupid=146142829637&rlsatarget=pla-1403035015187&abcId=9327625&merchantid=6995734&gclid=CjwKCAiA5L2tBhBTEiwAdSxJX5jIm7wxS60TiZ1idyeT-Pl47ZqFBc6YyDfKu53SkL36pv313kAGvhoCJVwQAvD_BwE

[JohnA1]

 

90% silver, rest copper - should be easy to verify this with a Sigma pro

 

[entsor]

I'm happy to send this to someone who is willing to test it.

[dicker]

13 minutes ago, entsor said:

I'm happy to send this to someone who is willing to test it.

Grading may be the best conclusive way to do so.

[dicker]

I have looked at the pics again on a high res screen rather than my iPhone.

I am pretty sure it is a counterfeit.  

[Sovhead]

9 hours ago, dicker said:

Grading may be the best conclusive way to do so.

If he’s lost money on a potential fake the last thing he would want to do is blow more money at NGC confirming it, he’s best sending it for cheap postage to get checked with a sigma by someone on here no?

[entsor]

4 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

If he’s lost money on a potential fake the last thing he would want to do is blow more money at NGC confirming it, he’s best sending it for cheap postage to get checked with a sigma by someone on here no?

Fortunately no money lost, this came as part of collection that I paid very little for. I wouldn’t go for grading on this coin, however getting it Sigma tested would be nice to know the composition.

[dicker]

51 minutes ago, Sovhead said:

If he’s lost money on a potential fake the last thing he would want to do is blow more money at NGC confirming it, he’s best sending it for cheap postage to get checked with a sigma by someone on here no?

If you can provide the reference genuine composition of a genuine 1890 CC that would be useful for Entsor to compare against…..

[ArgentSmith]

13 minutes ago, dicker said:

If you can provide the reference genuine composition of a genuine 1890 CC that would be useful for Entsor to compare against…..

@JohnA1 post indicates 90% Ag, 10% Cu

[Petra]

If the measurements were correct then be interesting to see what it’s made of?🤔

[ArgentSmith]

Just now, Petra said:

If the measurements were correct then be interesting to see what it’s made of?🤔

The the dimensions and weight within spec so my bet is 90% Silver 😁

[Petra]

So what’s up with it?🤔

[ArgentSmith]

Just now, Petra said:

So what’s up with it?🤔

You tell me? @entsor have you tried an app based ping test? 

[JohnA1]

Good idea. If it passes the app-based ping test (all three resonance frequencies) then it's unlikely to be fake.

Well, it could still be a fake using the original composition, but the silver content will be there. Numismatic value - who knows eh

[entsor]

I used the App for ping testing, and it says it's "bad". Tried like 20 times to make sure, so not looking great. Would still like to send it for sigma testing to fire the final nail in the coffin.

[ArgentSmith]

8 minutes ago, entsor said:

I used the App for ping testing, and it says it's "bad". Tried like 20 times to make sure, so not looking great. Would still like to send it for sigma testing to fire the final nail in the coffin.

If someone with a sigma pro is happy to test for you then why not, would definitely be interesting. I have a regular sigma but not sure it will reveal enough info.