Strange black marks on silver coins.

[LittleMan]

I have some 2015 1 oz Silver pandas purchased from a reputable dealer. They have never been removed from the capsules.

Some of them have strange dark marks at the rims.

Is it some kind of corrosion or tarnishing with age?

If anyone could enlighten me that would be great.

Thanks in advance.

[sixgun]

You can see the iridescence of silver toning on the last image.
If we look at this toned Morgan dollar we can see the same colouration or discolouration if you will.
So this is not something particularly strange - it happens to some coins - it is a desirable feature in some such as the American Silver Eagle.

[TeaTime]

Silver will tone - or tarnish -  in contact with air pollutants (sulphur compounds, cigarette smoke, chlorine, etc). Sometimes the tarnish can occur where a coin has been touched with greasy/sweaty fingers too (naturally occurring acids).

It looks like either you are seeing finger marks from when the coins were placed in a capsule or the capsules are not air-tight ( i could be wrong but it looks like the tarnish is occurring around the capsule cut-outs).

The good news is that it's perfectly natural and easily removed (should you wish) by a 3 second dip in tarnish remover (Goddards silver dip).  

[LawrenceChard]

9 hours ago, LittleMan said:

I have some 2015 1 oz Silver pandas purchased from a reputable dealer. They have never been removed from the capsules.

Some of them have strange dark marks at the rims.

Is it some kind of corrosion or tarnishing with age?

If anyone could enlighten me that would be great.

Thanks in advance.

 

I thought black and white markings were perfectly normal and natural on giant pandas!

😎

[stefffana]

35 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I thought black and white markings were perfectly normal and natural on giant pandas!

😎

 

[stefffana]

Hi, @LittleMan,

Your coins look legit, no worries about them. Unfortunately, when the time to sell will come, some buyers will be reluctant because this natural toning. 

I have seen before this specific toning on another Panda coins, and I suppose it is about poor quality of chinese capsules. Probably some of capsules do not close perfectly or have tiny pores that allow outside air to enter, exposing the silver coin.

 

[LittleMan]

Thanks guys.

They all have that iridescent look at the right angle.

3 hours ago, TeaTime said:

( i could be wrong but it looks like the tarnish is occurring around the capsule cut-outs).

 

It looks like that on one of the coins in the picture, but not on the others I have. I have some where it has clearly happened on the opposite side from the cut out.

Al my silver coins inc other years of panda have been kept together in the same box, and this has only happened to these coins.

So I dont think its from bad air seeping into the capsules, but more likely some contaminant already in the capsules when I got them.

Thanks again.

 

[Dastcoins]

Don't worry, those spots are normal, I have Mexico Libertad and American Silver Eagles with the same spots.

Think that it is only aesthetic, do not get overwhelmed or spend money on cleaning it.

Silver is "delicate" and it shows the passage of time. If you want more protection you can store them in intercept boxes or capsules.

 

[GBStacking]

My 2015 Panda's have exactly the same issue, it's air getting into the capsule from the little cut out that allows you to open it. The coins naturally rotate in the capsules with movement and vibration, hence why some appear on the other side to the hole. It's a shame it happens, but it's a natural part of owning silver I'm afraid.

 

[Dastcoins]

Photo from google. Only aesthetic, everithing it's ok.

[LittleMan]

On 29/05/2022 at 22:56, Dastcoins said:

Don't worry, those spots are normal, I have Mexico Libertad and American Silver Eagles with the same spots.

Think that it is only aesthetic, do not get overwhelmed or spend money on cleaning it.

Silver is "delicate" and it shows the passage of time. If you want more protection you can store them in intercept boxes or capsules.

 

I am concerned the marks will effect the resell value.

They were stored in mint capsules, in an airtight box with desiccant. Each coin was also in its own mini air tight baggie.

Looking carefully I have seen the same marks on other panders in ebay pictures. They were on pandas of different years to mine.

 

10 hours ago, GBStacking said:

My 2015 Panda's have exactly the same issue, it's air getting into the capsule from the little cut out that allows you to open it. The coins naturally rotate in the capsules with movement and vibration, hence why some appear on the other side to the hole. It's a shame it happens, but it's a natural part of owning silver I'm afraid.

 

My coins were placed in a box in 2015 - and removed from box in 2022. The coins were only moved a handful of occasions in that time.  I got a panda and gave it x100 more shaking than it has had in my possession and it did not budge. So I dont think they have been slowly vibrating around. But I did see a  guy in a YouTube video talking about how micro tremors and even vibrations from large traffic can ware coins in old cabinets. So I could be wrong!

I have my own theory of the cause. I have had pandas of the same year all stored together with other coins, yet only some 2015 pandas have been effected.

I think whatever caused the tarnishing was most likely already in the capsule or on the coin when the capsule was closed. Its hard to see in the photos but when actually inspecting these coins by eye, it looks like the marks are in places where you would grip with your fingers as they are placed in the capsule. I suspect it may be the result of contaminated hands/gloves of the mint worker placing them in the capsules. This is what gives it the impression its leaked in from 2 places.

What do you think looking at yours GBStacking? Do you see it on opposite sides of the coin where you would pick it up? Do you see it where there is the thumb grip on one side, then spread out finger marks on the other? Do you think there could be merit to my theory?

 

Anyway dipping....

I have been watching some videos on dipping coins. I have 2 maples that arrived covered in finger prints. The prints really annoy me and I have always wanted to clean them, but never knew how to do it without damaging the coin. So I have ordered some dip to try on them.

I am still in 2 minds to if I should use it on the Pandas to remove tarnish, but may try one and see what happens. I dont want to clean/dip coins, but worry these coins will loose their premium if I dont.

I feel like removing the prints is removing damage and I feel better about that, but removing tarnish I am not so sure about.

If I dip a modern coin and it worked perfect, and was completely undetectable that the coin had been dipped, should I inform buyers that it was cleaned/dipped/restored?

To dip or not to dip - that is the question?

 

Thanks as always for all the replies.

 

[GBStacking]

6 hours ago, LittleMan said:

I am concerned the marks will effect the resell value.

They were stored in mint capsules, in an airtight box with desiccant. Each coin was also in its own mini air tight baggie.

Looking carefully I have seen the same marks on other panders in ebay pictures. They were on pandas of different years to mine.

 

My coins were placed in a box in 2015 - and removed from box in 2022. The coins were only moved a handful of occasions in that time.  I got a panda and gave it x100 more shaking than it has had in my possession and it did not budge. So I dont think they have been slowly vibrating around. But I did see a  guy in a YouTube video talking about how micro tremors and even vibrations from large traffic can ware coins in old cabinets. So I could be wrong!

I have my own theory of the cause. I have had pandas of the same year all stored together with other coins, yet only some 2015 pandas have been effected.

I think whatever caused the tarnishing was most likely already in the capsule or on the coin when the capsule was closed. Its hard to see in the photos but when actually inspecting these coins by eye, it looks like the marks are in places where you would grip with your fingers as they are placed in the capsule. I suspect it may be the result of contaminated hands/gloves of the mint worker placing them in the capsules. This is what gives it the impression its leaked in from 2 places.

What do you think looking at yours GBStacking? Do you see it on opposite sides of the coin where you would pick it up? Do you see it where there is the thumb grip on one side, then spread out finger marks on the other? Do you think there could be merit to my theory?

 

Anyway dipping....

I have been watching some videos on dipping coins. I have 2 maples that arrived covered in finger prints. The prints really annoy me and I have always wanted to clean them, but never knew how to do it without damaging the coin. So I have ordered some dip to try on them.

I am still in 2 minds to if I should use it on the Pandas to remove tarnish, but may try one and see what happens. I dont want to clean/dip coins, but worry these coins will loose their premium if I dont.

I feel like removing the prints is removing damage and I feel better about that, but removing tarnish I am not so sure about.

If I dip a modern coin and it worked perfect, and was completely undetectable that the coin had been dipped, should I inform buyers that it was cleaned/dipped/restored?

To dip or not to dip - that is the question?

 

Thanks as always for all the replies.

 

I've had a good look on mine and there is only the black mark in one place on each of them. On one coin it lines up perfectly with the hole, but the other 3 it doesn't. However my sample size is very small as i only have 4 of the 2015, my 2014 is perfect, but that's slabbed. I certainly couldn't rule out contamination of a batch of capsules, or contamination from handling etc, but when i compare the mark to other heavily naturally tarnished silver, it does look very similar. If they have been produced, or transported through an area with heavy pollution (quite a few to pick from in China) then the sulphur containing compounds in the air could well have exacerbated this. 

As for losing premium, it's a difficult one, ultimately if you are a collector and want a complete set of MS70, it's going to hurt the value, but then so will cleaning them. However, whilst they are undoubtedly collected, they are just Chinese bullion silver. So if you buy them with this in mind, then is wont hurt their intrinsic silver value. I paid a slight premium for mine, but really only bought them as i didn't have any and i quite fancied some. I wasn't looking to pay collector money so just bought 5 mixed dates pre owned, dealers choice. I consider i got really lucky with the slabbed 2014 but the tarnish doesn't really spoil my enjoyment of the 2015's. And at the end of the day, if it really irks me, they are only bullion to me so I may look to gently clean.

[Dastcoins]

15 hours ago, LittleMan said:

 

 

15 hours ago, LittleMan said:

I am concerned the marks will effect the resell value.

They were stored in mint capsules, in an airtight box with desiccant. Each coin was also in its own mini air tight baggie.

Looking carefully I have seen the same marks on other panders in ebay pictures. They were on pandas of different years to mine

I understand you concern about reselling, and in part you are right, buyers who are too demanding or who do not understand silver think that it is something negative.  

It really is something aesthetic, you still have an ounce of pure silver from the "X" model.  As long as they are for you, don't get overwhelmed, you can always send them to NGC for example to be cleaned and encapsulated, but they will put you on the "CLEANED" label or you can try to buy specific cleaning products for silver.  

From my humble opinion I would leave it as it is, I looked for several specific years of Mexico Libertad and Silver Eagles and I bought them with those stains. 

greetings

[LittleMan]

I originally got 20 x 2015 Pandas but have 16 left. I have 6 with the black marks, so actually quite a high proportion. 

Its hard to take a picture showing what I think are finger grip marks. I just cannot get the angle right so you can see what I tried to describe. There was a good pic on ebay showing it, but sods law I cannot find it again.

But is interesting you say yours only have a mark in a single place. Maybe the guy packing your coins just picked his nose with one finger 👆, and the guy that packed my coins.......🤔

I dont think we will ever know for certain causes it, but my money is on contamination in the packing stage.

I did pay a premium for my Pandas and bought with the intention of flipping some. So would be disappointed to loose the premium.

I know if I dipped an old tarnished coin and the tarnish was not 100% removed, then it would obviously be classed as cleaned.

But technically all coins are cleaned by the mint before they sell them right. So what if I got a new brittanya from the royal mint, then dipped it straight away to remove any contaminants to prevent possible milk spotting. Would that coin be classed as cleaned?

Is it even possible to tell if a brand new coin has been dipped?

I was hoping there was some kind of established consensus on all of this. But the more I think about it the more it seems like a very grey area, that will likely split opinion.

But keep the opinions coming, I am interested to see what others think.

Thanks as always.