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Fake Shield Sovereigns? - 1884-M


TheGoldSovereign

Is this coin a Fake or Error?  

8 members have voted

  1. 1. Is this coin a Fake or Error?

    • Fake
      8
    • Error
      0


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Can't find much on google about these, do they exist (I assume so), and can anyone share pictures if they can find them?

I think I've received my first fake sovereign, at least that was my first thought. It's an 1884-M, pictured below.

The strange thing here is it is hard to compare because clearly the strike is way off, maybe this is why it looks so bad (in terms of detail), it is also a bit polished which doesn't help. The fact the strike is off means the measurements are a little out, 20.3x and 1.55x. The weight is close, I don't have precise scales but most of my sovs are 8.1g (not calibrated clearly) on these and this is 8.2g, then again another showed 8.0g so who knows, i only weighed 10-15.

Another interesting point is the axis is so off it is virtually en medaille alignment. 

 

Fake or Error?

 

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The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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5 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Looks all wrong, cast rather than struck. I am voting fake.

Are you referring to the lack of "sharpness" around the relief? If so i've seen quite a few Melbourne shields that have that feature

I can't find any resource that shows fake shields, they are all later?

 

edit: wait i now see what you mean, plenty of raised parts in fields that wouldn't be there on a strike

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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first look impression is fake.

if it's too heavy it'll definitely be so.

the first photo of the shield side just looks "wrong" and the lower field of the obverse suggests casting or poor electrolytic copy.

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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3 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

first look impression is fake.

if it's too heavy it'll definitely be so.

the first photo of the shield side just looks "wrong" and the lower field of the obverse suggests casting or poor electrolytic copy.

Have you handle fake shields at all? I'd love to see some literature on them, and pictures

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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2 hours ago, sg86 said:

Are you referring to the lack of "sharpness" around the relief? If so i've seen quite a few Melbourne shields that have that feature

I can't find any resource that shows fake shields, they are all later?

 

edit: wait i now see what you mean, plenty of raised parts in fields that wouldn't be there on a strike

The more I look at it, the more it looks like a Jewellers Copy - I have seen a few of those over the years from India and UAE. If you had someone XRF it and the metal mixture was silver  instead of copper then I might just be right. Its unusual that they make these without a small makers stamp though. 

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3 hours ago, JunkBond said:

Looks all wrong, cast rather than struck. I am voting fake.

I also think that this is cast.

Gravity test can help determine the gold content.

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4 hours ago, sg86 said:

Have you handle fake shields at all? I'd love to see some literature on them, and pictures

I've only ever seen one definite shield fake. In fact I have it somewhere, along with a couple of other G&D fakes. I put them somewhere safe to make sure they couldn't ever get mixed up with any real ones. Trouble is I can't remember where.:wacko:

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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I always look more at the Reverse.

It doesn't matter how much wear the Obverse has, the Field's on the Reverse should look polished due to the various details being close to one another, the Field's shouldn't get so much wear.

I can't tell too well from the pictures, but if the Fields look pitted, then it could well be cast.

I too have a number of Melbourne Shield's but even the worst still displays flat Reverse Field's, often displaying lustre.

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14 hours ago, SovTracker said:

I always look more at the Reverse.

It doesn't matter how much wear the Obverse has, the Field's on the Reverse should look polished due to the various details being close to one another, the Field's shouldn't get so much wear.

I can't tell too well from the pictures, but if the Fields look pitted, then it could well be cast.

I too have a number of Melbourne Shield's but even the worst still displays flat Reverse Field's, often displaying lustre.

To be honest if it wasn't so off centre I think the reverse would be hard to tell, I think its a pretty damn good copy. When i get the scope setup nailed i will overlay it on a "real" coin, and see how close the design is

I've not seen any shield fakes, I'll keep it then and get it scanned when I find time, it's interesting.

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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