Late to the game?

[DarkChameleon]

4 minutes ago, Lr103 said:

As long as you are a resident of a state with no sales tax, no taxes are incurred (the exception is that there are a handful of origin based sales tax states, where sellers must collect taxes from all sales.  Texas is like this).  Everywhere else is destination based.  This means if you are for example a resident of Montana (no sales tax), and buy something from a seller in New York, no taxes are withheld, nor is there any sales taxes liability for the buyer.

I'm in florida, MCM is in florida, if I buy from them i pay sales tax, if you from outside florida buy from them you don't pay taxes.

[Lr103]

On 29/03/2019 at 19:48, DarkChameleon said:

I'm in floridq, MCM is in florida, if I buy from them ipay sales tax,if you from outside florida buy from them you don't pay taxes.

That is correct...MCM withholds no taxes, and I am not liable.  It would be much nicer if taxes were less complicated! 😊

[Pete]

Come on guys in the USA - sales tax of ??
Bet it's a low number.
Our sales tax is a whopping 20% - beat that if you can !!

[SiliconToad]

In MA, we have a 6.25% sales tax on silver unless you purchase $1,000 USD or more (not sure why, probably a loophole for small businesses and the wealthy). But online dealers only need to force collection if they have a certain volume in the state (recollect it's like 1 million in gross sales, but don't quote me), so lots of smaller online shops are effectively tax free. However, technically, you are supposed to self-report all out of state purchases where you didn't pay sales tax on your annual state tax filing. 

[CollegeKevin]

On 28/03/2019 at 22:08, DarkChameleon said:

Are you still in college?.

No longer in college

[CollegeKevin]

On 29/03/2019 at 16:36, SiliconToad said:

If you are buying as a long term hold, I think you are getting in at one of the rare moments in history where it actually does make sense. Interest rates are stupid low, the Fed has said they are holding off on tightening, there are indications of economic cooling (inverse yield curve, yada yada) and the stock market is near it's all time high. The time you want to be selling is when there is blood on Wall Street (not literally, you know what I mean).

But let me give you some free advice, given by some dude on the internet that doesn't care if you take heed or not. Precious metals are not, have not been, nor are ever likely to be 1) a good investment relative to other options or 2) a good hedge against inflation. Precious metals are a placebo sought out by the fearful to make them feel better about their place in life, an industrial commodity to be traded by speculators and trinkets that have a nominal cost of the buy/sell spread. The reason gold/silver has been used for money throughout history is not because of any inherent quality, but because it was the best technology of the period to prevent counterfeiting. 

Don't get me wrong, my 10oz Black Bull is in the mail (can't wait!) but I don't expect to ever make money on the purchase. 

Great point.  One of the reasons I've moved from stacking generic to collecting vintage pours and art bars.  

[DarkChameleon]

On 31/03/2019 at 17:09, Pete said:

Come on guys in the USA - sales tax of ??
Bet it's a low number.
Our sales tax is a whopping 20% - beat that if you can !!

I cant...perhaps why I moved from the UK to Massachusetts and then from Massachusetts to Florida....each one miles better when you just think taxes.

[SiliconToad]

21 hours ago, DarkChameleon said:

I cant...perhaps why I moved from the UK to Massachusetts and then from Massachusetts to Florida....each one miles better when you just think taxes.

It's probably worse for us in the States than the UK over the long term... In MA, it's 6.25% up front and then federal + state gains tax on profits. Example:

Bought 1000 oz for $15,000, must pay $938 upfront in sales tax.

Sell for 20% gain, $18000, assuming single filing at median income marginal tax rate, pay $606 federal +  $150 state (~5%). Total tax on a 3k (20% on investment) gain with a 15k initial cost = $1694. 

So our tax rate is fixed on the front-end and scales on the back-end, but we essentially give up half of our gains in most realistic scenarios. It hurts more when you factor in opportunity cost and lost compounding interest. When weighing this against the fact that any protection from inflation is a taxable event which hits harder the more the initial fiat becomes devalued, I don't see how anyone can think of silver as a good way to protect wealth over the long term. Assuming the absence of a black swan event, of course. 

In the UK, you only take the hit on the front. If the value of the metal increases several fold, you keep the gains tax free if I understand your tax system correctly. 

[ilovesilverireallydo]

2 minutes ago, SiliconToad said:

I understand your tax system correctly

Only on certain bullion that are gains tax free

[DarkChameleon]

3 hours ago, SiliconToad said:

It's probably worse for us in the States than the UK over the long term... In MA, it's 6.25% up front and then federal + state gains tax on profits. Example:

Bought 1000 oz for $15,000, must pay $938 upfront in sales tax.

Sell for 20% gain, $18000, assuming single filing at median income marginal tax rate, pay $606 federal +  $150 state (~5%). Total tax on a 3k (20% on investment) gain with a 15k initial cost = $1694. 

So our tax rate is fixed on the front-end and scales on the back-end, but we essentially give up half of our gains in most realistic scenarios. It hurts more when you factor in opportunity cost and lost compounding interest. When weighing this against the fact that any protection from inflation is a taxable event which hits harder the more the initial fiat becomes devalued, I don't see how anyone can think of silver as a good way to protect wealth over the long term. Assuming the absence of a black swan event, of course. 

In the UK, you only take the hit on the front. If the value of the metal increases several fold, you keep the gains tax free if I understand your tax system correctly. 

You forget that a lot of lcs buy for cash on Bullion and seem to only care when buying jewelry where there are regulations the same way when sold privately, not ma y silver owners volunteer to tell uncle Sam about their profits...,but having lived in Holliston Mass I understood taxes way too much and owning rentals in New Hampshire so conned myself twuce, earning in Mass and owning in NH so I lost out to both tax deals..lol.

[SiliconToad]

1 hour ago, DarkChameleon said:

You forget that a lot of lcs buy for cash on Bullion and seem to only care when buying jewelry where there are regulations the same way when sold privately, not ma y silver owners volunteer to tell uncle Sam about their profits...,but having lived in Holliston Mass I understood taxes way too much and owning rentals in New Hampshire so conned myself twuce, earning in Mass and owning in NH so I lost out to both tax deals..lol.

Folks talk about risk-mitigation a lot with regard to using physical silver as a wealth preservation tools. I'd say trying to side-step the Internal Revenue Service is a bigger risk than anything... sure, you might be able to keep several thousand dollars under the table if you are smart about it, but serious stackers are squirreling away a lifetime of savings in physical metal. Getting that past the IRS is asking for major problems, and not having records of purchase/sales is not going to fly. They will make a "best guess" of what you have now, had in the past, what you paid, what you made from suspected sales and then you will be in front of a judge with the burden of proof on you to show the IRS's calculations are wrong. Good luck with that - add attorney fees to the premium costs. 

[DarkChameleon]

35 minutes ago, SiliconToad said:

Folks talk about risk-mitigation a lot with regard to using physical silver as a wealth preservation tools. I'd say trying to side-step the Internal Revenue Service is a bigger risk than anything... sure, you might be able to keep several thousand dollars under the table if you are smart about it, but serious stackers are squirreling away a lifetime of savings in physical metal. Getting that past the IRS is asking for major problems, and not having records of purchase/sales is not going to fly. They will make a "best guess" of what you have now, had in the past, what you paid, what you made from suspected sales and then you will be in front of a judge with the burden of proof on you to show the IRS's calculations are wrong. Good luck with that - add attorney fees to the premium costs. 

I'm a buyer so never sold anything beyond 4 coins on metaldetector.com site...my kids need to worry about stuff but as we have a no estate tax gains won't matter...if I ever needed it then 10k a year max ...my pension has me covered...and my filing cabinet has every single cent spent wether ebay, private or lcs...my memory isn't good enough to lie to anyone.

[Michal]

If silver is such a bad place for money why do you buy it then?

[SiliconToad]

@Michal  Because I like the look and feel of it. It's like low-cost art in that it does have an intrinsic value. But you are correct that I don't believe it to be a very good investment or hedge in the modern age, and that my feelings are the only reason precious metals were used for currency in the past is that it was the best anti-counterfeiting technology of the previous periods. 

[CollegeKevin]

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