closed Reduced -The shipwreck saga continues what a coin!! Shipwreck Treasure

[Leonmarsh]

Well not really sure how to list this one or price it

Dutch Silver rider ducaton or whats left of it, from the Vliegenhart shipwreck in 1735

http://www.oceantreasures.org/pages/content/famous-wrecks/the-dutch-v-o-c-vliegenthart.html

£140 plus post 

The coin itself is rare and commands around 300 plus in nice condition, I would grade this NGC AUS1 (about uncirculated seabed) 

Your buying a piece of history here

Now in hand with provenance pics and video added 

[Scaffstacker]

I hate being self employed this time of year! 
all my money is in coins/bars 🤣

Stunning bit of history,

good luck with the sale.

[Leonmarsh]

Always open to trades mate got no ideas of value of this piece other than its a one off thats for sure 

 

[Silverman2U]

Prefer if it was gold!

 

Just now, Silverman2U said:

Prefer if it was gold!

 

Now that would be special… mmmm 😋 

[Silverman2U]

Interested in authenticity of coin?

The certificate appears to be created by a company in St. Mary’s, Isles if Scilly under the name if T.J Hiron. Who is this guy Terry Hiron? He’s on LinkedIN apparently can’t find him yet. What’s the Provence? How did this guy get the coin? 

I get the impression a certificate could have been created by a diver (this TJ Hiron?)…

…But the boat went down off the coast of Zeeland in shallow water? A long way away, unless he was in Zeeland when he found it. 

Also does the state not own that coin? Do you need to get an official certificate via government agency if that’s the case? I am not versed in these matters and like the coin, hence I am asking.  

 

 

 

[ArgentSmith]

why does it look like that?

[Silverman2U]

3 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

why does it look like that?

I was going to ask the same question 🙋‍♂️ 

Anyone here on TSF a diver and can insite?

[Leonmarsh]

https://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/25/your-money/IHT-explorer-revels-in-wreckseeking-q-a-rex-cowan-from-solicitor.html

The site waa bought by rex cowan as with many shipwrecks peoplw buy the rights with 25% going back to dutch government

I understsnd that tj hiron owns a shop man o war but was also the site surveyor on the project is his main job coule always give the bloke a ring think his nunber is on the coa 

The other bloke was a diver on the site

Regarding condition im not sure as i wasnt under the sea with it but the reason for the ship sinking was on a sandbank so i suppose natural sandblasting has occured 

 

[Leonmarsh]

Connection between cowan and hiron, hiron was on his diving team

https://www.detecting.org.uk/html/Hollandia_Treasure_Wreck_Scilly_Isles_Treasure_Hunting.html

[Leonmarsh]

Re condition 

Sand or mud, acidity of the water, temperature and so effect the wear 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/05/why-do-some-shipwreck-coins-last-longer-than-others.html

Should charge an extra 20 quid for all this research, best i can do chaps other than this i have no idea 

[dicker]

Hi Leon

From what I know (have read) neither of the certificate signatories were involved in the salvage. 

It is very different from the x2 examples in my collection from this wreck both in terms of detail and missing the reverse. 

Would you sell with a money back + grading fee guarantee if it turns out to be counterfeit?

Best

Dicker

[Leonmarsh]

Hi dicker 

Wasnt the guy who signed it one of the divers as per pic 

I would refund the coin, as always stand by my coins not really my place to refund grading if someone decides to send it for grading 

Might call the number on the certificate if the guy is still around 

Not got it in hand yet so will be inteterting when it arrives 

How doesnit it differ in detail dicker? 

 

[Leonmarsh]

According to this heslin and hiron were part of the diving team,

[Leonmarsh]

You could always buy heslin and hirons book from Amazon about diving shipwrecks

[Leonmarsh]

Or even have a look at their pictures

[Leonmarsh]

Or read the full report on the excavation

I also understand t hiron still runs the underwater divers centre in the isles of scilly 

 

 

j.1095-9270.1975.tb00919.x (1).pdf

[Leonmarsh]

Forgot to say hes my dad too lol 

Only joking 

 

[ArgentSmith]

your phone needs charging... fascinating stuff BTW

[Leonmarsh]

Coin auction of heslin and hiron divers 

[dicker]

Hi Leon

The Vligenhart sunk around just off of Zeeland (Holland).

The Hollandia and Association were wrecked off of the Scillies.

The books (these plus some privately published books) are excellent but I don’t think either of the people in the certificates dived the Vliegebhart. Not from what I have read in any case, but of course happy to be corrected    

In terms of detail its worth comparing to the 1834 with saltwater damage the one here which is very similar to one of the ones I have.  

https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&searchterm=Netherlands+Ducaton+Rider&category=8&searchtype=1

 

Maybe a different mint? But no doubt very different.

Best

Dicker

[LukeStacker]

Perhaps send it for grading yourself, especially if you have others to send in. 

[Leonmarsh]

Interesting read in the donwloadable doucment on mercury maube this caused the coin to be like this top of page 297

19 minutes ago, LukeStacker said:

Perhaps send it for grading yourself, especially if you have others to send in. 

Not paying 40 quid for it to come back as AU details saltwater damage i can see that for free 

[dicker]

12 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

Coin auction of heslin and hiron divers 

The account of their work on the Association is well worth a read. See Admiral Shovels Treasure by McBride and Larn. Don’t recall anywhere that the dived off of Holland. 

If there is a book / document on this it would be great to add to my library of treasure wreck recoveries.  

[Leonmarsh]

Anyway will seee how it goes for a few days i presume the coin is an amalgamation of mercury and coin 

[Leonmarsh]

Others exist same coa type

Also see another ngc graded coin for condition of an 8.reales 

Anyone else? Lol