1897 s 1/2 sovereign

[CollectorNo1]

Hi all just wanted an opinion on this coin.

It's from my local coin dealer who has had it for a while at £400 offered to me for £360 around 2.5m mintage...I still think its a bit high..would appreciate your views

Thanks.

[sovereignsteve]

These Sydney veiled heads are pretty rare, decent enough grade as well🙂

Not the type of coin I keep a track on prices so can't comment really. My gut feeling is you are probably right but it depends on whether you've been looking for one and how you've fared so far😉

[CollectorNo1]

1 minute ago, sovereignsteve said:

These Sydney veiled heads are pretty rare, decent enough grade as well🙂

Not the type of coin I keep a track on prices so can't comment really. My gut feeling is you are probably right but it depends on whether you've been looking for one and how you've fared so far😉

I have purchased a few Sydney,Melbourne, no Perth yet...I've seen them cheaper but not in great condition...I would say its GEF I have dealt with this dealer before so have no worries on being genuine...just wasn't too sure about the price..

[sovereignsteve]

Do you really mean GEF? The obverse certainly doesn't look that good from the photo.

[CollectorNo1]

12 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Do you really mean GEF? The obverse certainly doesn't look that good from the photo.

What's your opinion on the grade?

[Pete]

At first I thought you were buying a full sovereign at this price.
I have several UK 1897 HS open to a sensible offer that would be cheaper if the date is all important and not the rarity.

As @sovereignsteve mentioned this is a rare coin and would perhaps explain its price assuming your dealer knows this already.
I checked Marsh ( p 147 ) and the Sydney Mint is rated R

 

[sovereignsteve]

33 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

What's your opinion on the grade?

I would be reluctant to do so as (a) it's extremely difficult using just a photo and (b) the obverse on veiled head sovereigns and especially half sovereigns is very trick to grade.

I was wondering if you meant to say GVF in which case I would suggest you were being a little hard on the coin. If you'd have said EF I wouldn't have argued.

The reverse is nice but there are still signs of some wear eg sword, tail. My main concern was that the effigy looks to have considerable wear/rubbing although this could be a photo artefact. The field and rim areas look almost flawless.

I don't thnk you can accurately grade one of these without the coin in hand.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by sovereignsteve

[CollectorNo1]

Thanks..I havnt seen it yet in hand...I did mean GEF...I always thought GVF was a higher grade??

[CollectorNo1]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

At first I thought you were buying a full sovereign at this price.
I have several UK 1897 HS open to a sensible offer that would be cheaper if the date is all important and not the rarity.

As @sovereignsteve mentioned this is a rare coin and would perhaps explain its price assuming your dealer knows this already.
I checked Marsh ( p 147 ) and the Sydney Mint is rated R

 

So you have the 1897 Sydney 1/2sov? What price was you looking for? 

Regards.

 

[sovereignsteve]

11 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Thanks..I havnt seen it yet in hand...I did mean GEF...I always thought GVF was a higher grade??

https://www.royalmint.com/our-coins/ranges/historic-coins/coin-grading/

[TeaTime]

Good Exremely (or extra) Fine would be getting to close to UNC.... The coin in this post would grafe as VF (Very Fine) - note that all the hair details are worn away and the veil also. You can hardly distinguish between the veil and the neck. The pearl earing just looks like a blob - no definition.

The lettering looks in better grade.

Book price around £150 for VF (Token Coin yearbook 2019) - add the premium increase in gold value to that (30%) gives you around £200.

I base my grading on examples i have purchased from DNW auctions over the years. I can say, without question, that they generally give either a half or a full grade below what a dealer would. Highly recommended for buyers but not so good for sellers.

 

[CollectorNo1]

1 hour ago, TeaTime said:

Good Exremely (or extra) Fine would be getting to close to UNC.... The coin in this post would grafe as VF (Very Fine) - note that all the hair details are worn away and the veil also. You can hardly distinguish between the veil and the neck. The pearl earing just looks like a blob - no definition.

The lettering looks in better grade.

Book price around £150 for VF (Token Coin yearbook 2019) - add the premium increase in gold value to that (30%) gives you around £200.

I base my grading on examples i have purchased from DNW auctions over the years. I can say, without question, that they generally give either a half or a full grade below what a dealer would. Highly recommended for buyers but not so good for sellers.

 

Thanks for your info..I was thinking that the premium would be higher..the fields are nice the date,rim look very nice..I have seen the wear but taking into consideration the age its gonna have wear..all sovreigns around this price do.

Also that year no sovreigns were produced in England and the mintage is fairly low...around 2.5m that's including I'm assuming full sovs and those that might have been in sets.

1/2 sovs in the Victorian era were lesser produced than full. I've had a look around dealers sites and fleabay...I havnt seen any going for £200 if I had I would have jumped on them...average is £350-£480 some even more but in a higher grade.

I'm in 2 minds about this one..I do like it and it's one I've been looking for..but with the new 2022 sov and the next Great Engravers coming out..my head is telling me to save my pennies..☺

[TeaTime]

That's the trouble with 'book price' - it's just a guestimate of the value based on previous sales. The reality can often be hugely different and prices can change over a 24 month period based on popularity and area. Still, it's a starting point and a guide to what a coin has realised historically.

I still think £360 is a bit strong. But i'm not a halfy collector so am completely ignorant of the market. All i know is condition is everything when buying numismatics and the example in the pictures is mid-range for condition so shouldn't command too high of a premium.