Numismatic Silver

[Scuzzle]

As a new stacker I was wondering about numismatic silver coins, I know they help with keeping the price you paid for it when the price of silver drops but do they also increase in price when silver rises.  For example a 1 oz silver lunar proof whatever costing £60 if spot went to £60 an oz then how would this coins value behave then.  Is it now worth £80, £100, £120 etc, how does it usually pan out.   Just asking because I've not been around long enough to know how it works.

[Pipers]

Cull silver over on YouTube has a video about selling silver on a rising market, its very interesting and you should watch it. 

[HelpingHands]

Is this the vid?  It's mainly about bullion selling.

 

[HelpingHands]

I suspect that the lower spot price makes a higher % mark up on (semi)numis.

I think affordability is a factor therefore giving you access to a greater number of buyers.  A £20 could sell for £40 much easier than a £1000 selling for £2000.  

I suppose this is mainly common sense but you can see it now in coin sizes.  You could mark up a 1/2oz coin to a higher % of spot than a 10oz coin.

 

[Scuzzle]

That Cull Silver guy does not seem to actually care what spot is at the time he sells compared to what it was when he bought it, if spot was $1400 when he bought them and $1200 when he sold them then he's well down.  I always put down what the spot price was at the moment I buy when I do my spreadsheet.

[BaldyBob]

4 hours ago, Scuzzle said:

That Cull Silver guy does not seem to actually care what spot is at the time he sells compared to what it was when he bought it, if spot was $1400 when he bought them and $1200 when he sold them then he's well down.  I always put down what the spot price was at the moment I buy when I do my spreadsheet.

I would imagine anyone selling end of 2010, going into 2011, was selling at a reasonable profit. If the graph goes like that again I will be doing likewise

Interesting results for silver sales re bullion & semi-numi.

[sovereignsteve]

You have to remember that guys lives in a different world, the US, when it comes to buying and selling silver.

I doubt you'll find a LCD here to give as much as he found, and large dealers? what do Atties and HGM give, about 75%?

[HelpingHands]

4 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

You have to remember that guys lives in a different world, the US, when it comes to buying and selling silver.

I doubt you'll find a LCD here to give as much as he found, and large dealers? what do Atties and HGM give, about 75%?

 

[watchesandwhisky]

14 hours ago, Scuzzle said:

As a new stacker I was wondering about numismatic silver coins, I know they help with keeping the price you paid for it when the price of silver drops but do they also increase in price when silver rises.  For example a 1 oz silver lunar proof whatever costing £60 if spot went to £60 an oz then how would this coins value behave then.  Is it now worth £80, £100, £120 etc, how does it usually pan out.   Just asking because I've not been around long enough to know how it works.

If silver rises massively do not expect numismatic coins to keep pace with cheap bullion, not even close..

lets just say a Maple costs £12 at the moment, spot rises to £50 giving a £38 rise in price. or over a 300% increase..Do not expect a silver proof that is worth £40 now to also have a 300% rise and be worth £120 at £50 spot. It wont be. The premium on numismatics will drop significantly in a large price rise.

Thats not to say a numismatic coin that's worth £40 now could not be worth £120 at £50 spot price...But if it is its down to the Demand for the coin, not the metal content, and that can not be banked on.

If that was the case cheap bullion would be not of much use:) 

[sovereignsteve]

45 minutes ago, HelpingHands said:

 

Yes, gold is a different ballgame, close to spot is achievable. But silver.....................???

[Scuzzle]

14 minutes ago, Madstacks said:

If silver rises massively do not expect numismatic coins to keep pace with cheap bullion, not even close..

lets just say a Maple costs £12 at the moment, spot rises to £50 giving a £38 rise in price. or over a 300% increase..Do not expect a silver proof that is worth £40 now to also have a 300% rise and be worth £120 at £50 spot. It wont be. The premium on numismatics will drop significantly in a large price rise.

Thats not to say a numismatic coin that's worth £40 now could not be worth £120 at £50 spot price...But if it is its down to the Demand for the coin, not the metal content, and that can not be banked on.

If that was the case cheap bullion would be not of much use:) 

Thanks, that was pretty much how I figured it, I'm looking to expand my silver to more collectible stuff but am totally lost as to what to get, I don't want to be paying extra for stuff that has already proven itself rather take a punt on what is just out and might have good upside.

My problem is (and without wishing to cause offence to anyone) it looks like these mints just slap any old thing on an ounce or two of silver and hope for the best.  How do you choose what to go for.  Do you just pick what you think looks good, I really like the look of the 5oz Mythical Creatures coin but am afraid I would be paying the premium if I bought one now rather than waiting to collect it in future.

[sovereignsteve]

Sounds to me you're basically a stacker who wants a little bit of interest as well.

My advice would be just buy semi-numismatic "bullion" on release. They can be had for very little premium over bog-standard bullion coins

There is invariably some upside over spot prices over the years. Try to extend your "collection"  by acquiring earlier years when you can get them cheaply enough for a little extra interest.

Your premium at purchase is small. if spot rises dramatically, your coins will follow and if spot stays the same, you will still make some profit.

Of course, you may well turn into a full blown collector and we all know where that leads.

[watchesandwhisky]

My Advice would be to stack bullion for now, yes it could drop a little, but the potential downside is very small now.

Numismatic coins have performed very well in the crash since 2011 and so are very popular, but I cant help but feel they are better suited to protecting against spot price drops in a high market than expecting appreciation in an already low market.

But if you want to go for expensive high reliefs like the 5oz mythical creatures just go for whatever you can admire and appreciate:)

 

[HelpingHands]

28 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Yes, gold is a different ballgame, close to spot is achievable. But silver.....................???

It's the same for both at BBP

 

We buy back all gold and silver bullion bars and coins that were supplied by us at 98% of the spot price. We pay up to 97% on bars, coins and scrap bought elsewhere.

I do see the dreaded 'up to' in that phrase though.

[sovereignsteve]

yet HGM will only pay 75%

[HelpingHands]

STG's buy backs were often listed higher than spot.  That info does not seem to be in the coin descriptions currently so I can't give an example.

[sovereignsteve]

The question will be whether BBP will be there to buy everyone's bullion silver for close to spot when silver has landed on the moon?

[garthy]

11 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

The question will be whether BBP will be there to buy everyone's bullion silver for close to spot when silver has landed on the moon?

That's usually when the dumb money comes rushing in, They'll be so many buyers and few sellers, it happens time and time again.

[Pipers]

On 20/12/2015 at 02:35, Scuzzle said:

That Cull Silver guy does not seem to actually care what spot is at the time he sells compared to what it was when he bought it, if spot was $1400 when he bought them and $1200 when he sold them then he's well down.  I always put down what the spot price was at the moment I buy when I do my spreadsheet.

I have watched quite a lot of his videos and he seems to know what he is talking about, you should looks at some of his collections ifvhe still has the videos up.