Are slabbed graded coins the safe holding area your money?

[DarkChameleon]

They don't rise or fall dramatically on average so are they the place to be during swings in the market?

We have bought bullion and limited mintage and some historical coins and bars etc but is the place to hold our gains or shirts graded coins.

The red book and blue book in the US give prices on average for graded coins for us issue gold and silver medals and coins and the sways are nothing like the market which makes it much more of a collectors place but like antiques and art there are price fluctuations as we see on antiques roadshow episodes with the past shows....is this an investment area or holding area for returns made on pms to stop the market dictated and manipulated prices slowly eating away at so many frequent buyers and sellers?.

You can see sales online from previous years at some sites like heritage etc of graded coin buys and sells, is it prodominantly collectors to each other or investors/gamblers/lack of trust in government individuals like us?....does bon jovi really like baseball cards enough to buy a multimillion dollar graded one or is it another investment?.

Is this area fraught with risk or reward like graded pokemon collectors, it is an area where you have physical ownership of it not like SLV etc...so who sees this is a potential place to stash fiat when the markets in turmoil or is it hold you metals closer as the waves get higher?

[Martlet]

Not sure about that. Collections depend on affluence to sustain their value, expect them to be susceptible to sharp correction when an economy falls.  They are not very liquid, when you need to move a lot on you may find it slow or price drop.  

[DarkChameleon]

38 minutes ago, Martlet said:

Not sure about that. Collections depend on affluence to sustain their value, expect them to be susceptible to sharp correction when an economy falls.  They are not very liquid, when you need to move a lot on you may find it slow or price drop.  

With regard to artwork yes, all sliding scale on fluidity of investments buy can't that be said of silver as a commodity and SLV as an investment, days or weeks versus nanoseconds, people buy furniture but its a lot to move around with them, a culture of movement choose smalls like gold, diamonds and yes, even small antiques of which graded coins falls into, it doesn't have to be a collection per say in the same way a stash of gold doesn't have to be a full set of queens beasts to be a store of wealth...is a graded coin more susceptible to market forces against international currency as pms or less?.

On a scale is its volatility higher or lower then metals, are new graded coins more volatile then historical as their numbers can be added to or less so as their appeal and luster are deemed superior even if just by grade?.

[Shep]

I’m personally trying to move a little away from bullion and have a portion of my “investment” in numismatics.

I do think there is some merit to the thinking that buying certain carefully selected numismatics, that are perhaps less affected by downwards movements in spot price can provide a bit of security to a stack.

Only gold in my case I must add. Modern silver seems a dangerous and cruel mistress to me.

[Martlet]

Ok, lets put it another way, the volatility is lower while there is a market, but that market is sensitive to major economic impacts. 

If i have £10k worth of bullion, it ebbs and flows with the market, though I could be up and down 10% a month, I can always sell at that market price.  With a selection of graded coins worth 10k I might not be up and down, the ups lock in and downs softened. Then there's a major economic shock and no is buying slabbed coins.  The "market price" may not have changed (yet), but there isnt a liquid market so cant sell at that price.  Its worth little more than bullion, which could be 50%, 25%, or less. 

In a longer term thats probably a benefit (dont sell into short term shocks), but there is a risk of being stuck with asset when you need liquidity.  So "safe" depends on other assets at ones disposal.  I can see the case for top graded coins for really long term investment, as long as you have plenty of liquid assets to get you there. 

I'd also wonder how much modern pieces would fetch in the future.  Its not certain the appeal of some artificially scarce proof 20xx will sustain, vs the appeal of a 18xx circulation coin in AU grade. 

[Shep]

I agree that what you may trade up in terms of potential price security, you’re potentially losing in terms of liquidity. But therein lies the need for diversification.

19 hours ago, Martlet said:

I can see the case for top graded coins for really long term investment, as long as you have plenty of liquid assets to get you there. 

@MartletJust out of interest and if I may, what would you suggest is a sensible percentage of funds to split between bullion and certain numismatics?

(I appreciate that what I’m asking is a gross oversimplification).

[goldmember44]

Modern proof graded sovereigns seem to have been going up in price recently even as the gold price has fallen (except for the most common years). 

[DarkChameleon]

For comparison some modern collectibles have shot up and I think some of it is this massive pile of easy money...paintings, statues, pottery, etc, I think older slabbed coins would benefit of not say getting another sudden input diluting the value, perhaps why dead artists work goes up as the limit of likeness is reached and old coins like tree shillings, high graded hammered silver etc...as with all things though, slabged is like cryptos in the face you can invest as much or little as you wish, from less then the slab cost to the price of your house, the risk I feel is more stable then some fluid metals prices and not for sole investing could be some of a mixed investment package.

[GoodAsGold]

On 10/01/2021 at 21:37, Shep said:

I do think there is some merit to the thinking that buying certain carefully selected numismatics, that are perhaps less affected by downwards movements in spot price can provide a bit of security to a stack.

Only gold in my case I must add. Modern silver seems a dangerous and cruel mistress to me.

I agree with these comments, particularly as my “give silver a final chance” coin purchase in 2018 has developed a milk spot in the field (behind Una’s head). Yup, the spectacular Una and the Lion release sadly enough.

Yet to borrow a phrase off the one and only @GrahamDiamond I think that some of my carefully selected gold purchases are “a winner winner chicken dinner”. Just as Graham’s own silver Una turned out to be when he sold it on. 

I was only coming to the end of my first year collecting coins in 2016 and hadn’t yet progressed from BU cupro nickels to silver. I could only drool when I saw the brochure for the 2017 special year design GOLD proof sovereign with the original 1817 garter design. My financial circumstances changed for the better by mid 2018 and I was able to source a PF70 2017 quintuple, even though I thought I’d paid the Earth for it. I paid for it by credit card too. We coin collectors are mental at times, but what the hell. Now standard year design quintuples are going for similar prices to what I paid back then, so I hope that my 2017 quintuple is now worth the Earth AND the Moon. I seldom see them for sale. They’re like hens teeth. 

You can’t beat the wow factor I constantly tell myself when I tuck into my Sunday lunch of beans on toast washed down with a vintage glass of water. At least I pay cash for food and water and my credit card returned to zero debt eventually. There’s good luck and bad luck with our purchases but carefully selected numismatic coins  are the way to go (if you can afford them) as @Shep says.

Great topic by the way @DarkChameleon

[DarkChameleon]

1 hour ago, GoodAsGold said:

I agree with these comments, particularly as my “give silver a final chance” coin purchase in 2018 has developed a milk spot in the field (behind Una’s head). Yup, the spectacular Una and the Lion release sadly enough.

Yet to borrow a phrase off the one and only @GrahamDiamond I think that some of my carefully selected gold purchases are “a winner winner chicken dinner”. Just as Graham’s own silver Una turned out to be when he sold it on. 

I was only coming to the end of my first year collecting coins in 2016 and hadn’t yet progressed from BU cupro nickels to silver. I could only drool when I saw the brochure for the 2017 special year design GOLD proof sovereign with the original 1817 garter design. My financial circumstances changed for the better by mid 2018 and I was able to source a PF70 2017 quintuple, even though I thought I’d paid the Earth for it. I paid for it by credit card too. We coin collectors are mental at times, but what the hell. Now standard year design quintuples are going for similar prices to what I paid back then, so I hope that my 2017 quintuple is now worth the Earth AND the Moon. I seldom see them for sale. They’re like hens teeth. 

You can’t beat the wow factor I constantly tell myself when I tuck into my Sunday lunch of beans on toast washed down with a vintage glass of water. At least I pay cash for food and water and my credit card returned to zero debt eventually. There’s good luck and bad luck with our purchases but carefully selected numismatic coins  are the way to go (if you can afford them) as @Shep says.

Great topic by the way @DarkChameleon

When I look at coinfacts from pcgs it gives the up and down swings of graded coins and yes, just like the market they do jump and fall, the most dramatic time being in the 80s when graded coins were ridiculous, and now they have reached an affordable plateau it seems, I wouldn't recommend pensions invested in slabbedbut i think as part of our pm and collection mixture they do offer a much more stable environment then some investments and you can hold them, not just watch numbers rise and fall like cryptos.