My ATB Weakness

[Shinus73]

Like many others, when I first started buying, I fell into collecting date runs of various silver bullion coins, but over time I've turned into a stacker and the collections are long gone.

However, I can't let go of my fondness for the ATB's. I missed out on the early releases, as they weren't widely available in Europe, but have picked up most of the 2011 and 2013-2015 releases.

Any other lovers of the ATB's out there?

[Danny-boy]

Like many others, when I first started buying, I fell into collecting date runs of various silver bullion coins, but over time I've turned into a stacker and the collections are long gone.

I'm the same, it's amazing how many people do this.

Always liked the ATB's, but thankfully steered clear as that is an expensive undertaking!!!

[sovereignsteve]

Any other lovers of the ATB's out there?

'fraid so. I buy the new releases as they appear but have a lot missing from early on. They are very expensive now.

Would be nice to organise a swap shop for duplicates if anyone has any. I can get the new releases from the US easy enough.

[ArthGoch]

Any other lovers of the ATB's out there?

Guilty.

Have complete date runs for both the 'P' series and bullion from inception to date. With the latter also picked up a number of tubes ( more like barrels) and have stock piled these for a rainy day.

Keep an eye open for bullion grade Arches and Sand Dunes from last year and which are still kicking around in fairly large numbers. The mintage was called fairly early on these and at 22k. These are only a couple of thousand over the 'holy grail' Hawaii and Denali and thus look good for potential gain over the coming years. Also with only three months of 2015 to go, two of the series ( Bombay Hook and Saratoga)  are still to be released in both P and bullion. Seems like there is a capacity issue at the US mint centres and once again these might be short run issues.   

Seeing the price of all the coins (bar the 2011 overkill) are doing well on the secondary market I don't think you can go to wrong. Also with half of the 56 coins being issued the interest is self perpetuating as more people become aware and start to collect by genre/locality/theme.

Good luck on your quest for the 2012 coins ............. May your pockets be deep!   

[Pete]

I also started collecting the 5oz sets and even went as far as purchasing nice wooden boxes from Apmex.

I slipped up not buying the now expensive Hawaii volcanoes which I need to complete the set.

Realising there are lots of years still forthcoming, I called it a day and decided to stop collecting.

Most of my earlier coins were purchased from CoinInvest in Germany but later on from Apmex.

 

[Shinus73]

 

Would be nice to organise a swap shop for duplicates if anyone has any.

I like the sound of a swap shop, but I suspect we may all be looking for the same ones.

I'm still after a Perry's Victory and Rushmore from 2013, as I was short of funds when these 2 were available.

 

[sovereignsteve]

I like the sound of a swap shop, but I suspect we may all be looking for the same ones.

I'm still after a Perry's Victory and Rushmore from 2013, as I was short of funds when these 2 were available.

 

Yes I agree, but would probably be useful for those just starting out.

Myself, I only have 12 of the almost 30 so far released.

[Shinus73]

I think I have 20 including the Bombay Hook I ordered yesterday.

I have spares of several of the 2013-2015 releases, if anybody is interested in swaps.

[mmissinglink]

Yes, I am a fan of the ATB 5 oz silver coin series. The quality and subject of the designs is outstanding even though I may disagree with a couple of the final design selections by the Committee.

I discovered this series only in very late 2012 I believe and I had to buy the first 7 (2010 and a couple of 2011) coins on eBay (because that's where I could find the best prices even though the prices weren't low per se). But I really lucked out with the remainder of the 2011 coins because when I checked the U.S. Mint website, they still had like the last 3 of 5 designs available for sale. I purchased one of each and I noticed that shortly after (couple of weeks or so if my memory serves me correctly) I purchased my 2011 ATB's from the US Mint that the US Mint took the 2011's off sale and out of sight...so I really lucked out with them.

I've been pleasantly surprised by the high quality and physical appearance of the "P" version. As just one of many examples, I can remember when receiving my order of the Everglades NP coin, how much way better it looked in hand than it did in the crappy pictures the US Mint uses on it's website.

I hope to be able to complete my collection of the full series....it will be a great and valuable gift to my kids.

[ArthGoch]

. Also with only three months of 2015 to go, two of the series ( Bombay Hook and Saratoga)  are still to be released in both P and bullion. Seems like there is a capacity issue at the US mint centres and once again these might be short run issues.   

Short run ? - Fat chance!

Bombay Hook ( Bullion) is currently showing as sold out and at 45k. If reports are to be believed all of these were snapped up by dealers within 24 hours.

Conversely the maximum 'P'  that can be minted will be capped at 20k and due to the applicable legislation currently decreeing that a maximum of 65k in total of any one or other 5oz design can be minted. Thus, those looking to take a punt on a quick flip the P might be the way to go. 

As of this evening some interesting prices for the bullion versions

• APMEX ( via ebay)  = £85.29 +pp £25.87     = £111.16
• MCM (via ebay)  £78.88 +pp £25.33            =  £103.21
• Silberline.de =  £81.72 +pp  £12.00               =  £93.72

 Bullion exchange have these at £79 but are subject to the GSP which take these to near £110. Also APMEX and MCM might be subject to customs duty. Thus the German dealer is  by far the cheapest option. I bought from them earlier in the week, and the price then was even lower. ( circa £88 inc p&p). Similarly they appear to be taking advance orders on Saratoga and at a little over £78 ( not including pp) 

Reading some of the US blogs on the subject, there is concern that a cartel arrangement is developing and where prices are being raised by a number of the large dealers. When you read that 45k were snapped up in a day, and you  see that you can buy these just as cheaply from a European source it does beg the question 

[mmissinglink]

Interesting points ArthGoch...I didn't realize that there was a 1-year cumulative mintage limit on the "P" version...I do think the significantly lower mintages on some of the "P" version ATB's will, in the end, make them more collectible and harder to find than the BU version.

45,000 ATB's in one day is a very fast sell-out....could it be that dealers are expecting the silver spot to rise and therefore they are simply getting larger than usual bullion coin orders placed in anticipation of that?

[ArthGoch]

Interesting points ArthGoch...I didn't realize that there was a 1-year cumulative mintage limit on the "P" version..

Just for clarification and correction,

The current ceiling of 65k is per issue not per year. (Erroneously I earlier said 60k)  Thus if the US mint have sold 45k Bombay Hook in bullion finish they will be restricted to only produce 20k in the P finish. The current subscription program for the P has around 13k-15k members thus I think it is almost certain that they will reach the ceiling of 20k and which for recent times is  still a relatively small mint run

 http://www.coinnews.net/2015/03/31/sales-of-2015-homestead-5-oz-silver-bullion-coins-hit-max/

https://www.moderncoinmart.com/forum/threads/5-oz-atb-mintage-question.4312/

 

[Shinus73]

The Bombay Hook appears to have sold out of the usual European Dealers much more quickly than previous issues, but I suspect that this may be because fewer have found there way to Europe in the first place.

I usually buy from Chiemgauer on release of each issue and ordered 2 Bombay Hook a few weeks back. They sold out quickly but I never received the coins. On enquiring this morning I was told that they had just arrived, but that they had only been sent 10 tubes, rather than the 25 they had been expecting. Fortunately my 2 are now on the way.

[ArthGoch]

Today picked up the Saratoga bullion via Silberling for 103 Euros and which is being listed on pre release and for delivery circa 22nd Dec. 

Apmex have also listed these today, and at $92 for a single coin and via CC/Paypal purchase; delivery into US starting 9th of Dec 

Bit of shift in pricing point in comparison to the alluded price/cartel arrangement of the Bombay Hook and if true appears to have backfired. Ampex are today offering the Bombay at £74 and down from their release price of £85. Also bear in mind that this is against a coin that is sold out  from the mint and which traditionally triggers a rise of about 10%-15%  across the bigger US dealers as and when it happens.

Have to wait and see what are the sales patterns in the short term and if this comes anywhere close to a sell out within 24 hours. It will be interesting also to see if the split of 45k/20k is going to be maintained between Bullion and Collector Additions 

[sovereignsteve]

1 hour ago, ArthGoch said:

Apmex have also listed these today, and at $92 for a single coin and via CC/Paypal purchase; delivery into US starting 9th of Dec 

Showing at $102.91 when I look!

[GrahamHantsHog]

Please excuse my newbie ignorance, what is an ATB ?

[daz]

america the beautiful - its a five oz coin series

[mmissinglink]

The price increase was due to the spot price of silver going up during the time you checked.

 

This coin has a good chance of selling out if the spot silver remains as low as it is.

[sovereignsteve]

43 minutes ago, mmissinglink said:

The price increase was due to the spot price of silver going up during the time you checked.

Really? Almost 12% increase in 1 hour?

[mmissinglink]

That's my answer and I'm sticking with it. 

It is possible of course that coupled with the spot rise that APMEX also raised the price.

 

[sovereignsteve]

13 minutes ago, mmissinglink said:

That's my answer and I'm sticking with it. 

It is possible of course that coupled with the spot rise that APMEX also raised the price.

 

Or that they made a mistake the first time, $92 does seem quite low. Perhaps @ArthGoch made a mistake or typo, hopefully he'll be able to clear it up.

[ArthGoch]

No mistake, no typo. Mmissinglink has given you the answer

If  you look at the Apmex scrolling caption and as attached, this was yesterday afternoon displaying an 'introductory offer/discount' and where the current yellow flash of 'final release' is now shown.

Increasingly it is becoming common practise for online dealers to build algorithms/auto pricing in respect of their ability to supply and which can react in respect to peaks and troughs to current demand. Thus they are able to react almost instantly to sales surges. Conversely with the Bombay it is probable that the sales pattern has triggered the reduction. 

Even with Siberling (which is small fry in comparison to Apmex)  the price moved by around 2 euros for my sale. And when I purchased the Bombay the price fluctuation was even greater and due to low stocks

Hope this clears this up. If you still have any lingering doubts why this was offered for circa $92 no doubt Ampex customer service would be able to confirm to your satisfaction 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sovereignsteve]

Yes I was beginning to think it may have been some kind of special offer with a limit on how many they would sell at the low price. Shame I didn't see it, I would have bought a few.

[Shinus73]

APMEX also did this with the Bombay Hook - the introductory price was in the low $90's and within a day it was over $100. I'd never noticed such a jump with the previous releases, but I could be wrong. 

[Shinus73]

The expected ship date for these coins is extremely late (9 December). I don't recall any of the previous releases being delayed by almost a month. This morning I asked Cheimgauer when they would have stock and at what price. They confirmed that US dealers won't have them until 9th December and that there will be none in the EU until Xmas. They couldn't give a price as they haven't been quoted one yet.