WE DEMAND

[aztecstargazer]

What is it that we demand for our actual physical accumulation?

[aztecstargazer]

After inflation and all the manipulation.....I want $47/ounce

[sixgun]

Well this is a question of how long you intend to hold for and what you see the long term price being. You might have to sell for some reason. You might fall off the perch and it's all sold to the pawn shop for $10/oz.

i have no time frame other than i do not intend to sell for a few years. i expect significant increases in price. By the end of this decade i expect at least $5000 gold and $500 silver.

[onlyroadtoheaven]

I'm just looking forward to the ride!! Pretty much missed all the recent bubbles - Tech, property and Bitcoin. Imagine sitting back and seeing Bitcoin replicated with silver from these lowly levels. Bring it on!

[JohnA]

Collecting silver and gold is a good hobby. A lot of others you put money into them but you will never get that money back. So no matter what we are ahead of most people. 

[Silverclown]

12 hours ago, sixgun said:

Well this is a question of how long you intend to hold for and what you see the long term price being. You might have to sell for some reason. You might fall off the perch and it's all sold to the pawn shop for $10/oz.

i have no time frame other than i do not intend to sell for a few years. i expect significant increases in price. By the end of this decade i expect at least $5000 gold and $500 silver.

Sorry, but why do you think that the price  will multiple by that much? 

 

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, Silverclown said:

Sorry, but why do you think that the price  will multiple by that much? 

 

There are lots of reasons. One of these is Kinesis.

i am very bullish on Kinesis - i am not selling it, just invested.

Here is the most recent radio interview. Kinesis will suck out massive amounts of bullion and will expose the fact a great deal of bullion does not exist. Unallocated gold accounts do not have the gold. $billions of gold is held in these accounts. Investment companies holding bullion will pull it out to put it into Kinesis. New investment from funds wanting a level 1 asset (gold) with an income will go into Kinesis. Except the gold does not exist. Withdrawals from unallocated accounts will be settled in cash and then will go into gold. The gold market is massively leveraged. $billions and $billions in gold does not exist. There will be a melt down.

radio.goldseek.com/nuggets/kinesis.02.28.18.mp3

[Mildred]

Abx is already pre-selling the kvts (kinesis velocity tokens).

They call it the ito (initial token offer) phase

1st May starts the selling of the kvts to the public

1st Juli the kinesis ico (initial coin offer)

1st October kinesis should start being traded

My point is, abx won't wait for october to start acquiring the metal. Probably they do it according to the current ito's and ico's subscription levels.

The scenario you are depicting doesn't have to be "down the road", it could happen anytime

 

[Silverclown]

4 hours ago, sixgun said:

There are lots of reasons. One of these is Kinesis.

i am very bullish on Kinesis - i am not selling it, just invested.

Here is the most recent radio interview. Kinesis will suck out massive amounts of bullion and will expose the fact a great deal of bullion does not exist. Unallocated gold accounts do not have the gold. $billions of gold is held in these accounts. Investment companies holding bullion will pull it out to put it into Kinesis. New investment from funds wanting a level 1 asset (gold) with an income will go into Kinesis. Except the gold does not exist. Withdrawals from unallocated accounts will be settled in cash and then will go into gold. The gold market is massively leveraged. $billions and $billions in gold does not exist. There will be a melt down.

radio.goldseek.com/nuggets/kinesis.02.28.18.mp3

The Understanding of what I get from ABX is that if it works, silver and gold will increase without even being in their ecosystem(exchange)?

[PansPurse]

I waded through the Kinesis "Blueprint" and... Yeah... Still not going to touch with a thirty foot barge pole.

[Roy]

19 hours ago, sixgun said:

By the end of this decade i expect at least $5000 gold and $500 silver.

Well, I hope so! But will it be as much as that?

A 2000oz silver millionaire?

A 200oz gold millionaire?

(stop smiling mr-dead )

[Martlet]

31 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

I waded through the Kinesis "Blueprint" and... Yeah... Still not going to touch with a thirty foot barge pole.

Yes, its a bit... hmmm, how to put it, iffy?   Several alarm bells, the promise of fantastic yield, "recruiters" who get a cut, unspecified source of transaction fees, the presale of tokens to allow entrance to the coin sale.  I dont see how perpetual yield is possible in the event a coin is converted to fiat, the token should be destroyed and gold sold. 

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, Martlet said:

Yes, its a bit... hmmm, how to put it, iffy?   Several alarm bells, the promise of fantastic yield, "recruiters" who get a cut, unspecified source of transaction fees, the presale of tokens to allow entrance to the coin sale.  I dont see how perpetual yield is possible in the event a coin is converted to fiat, the token should be destroyed and gold sold. 

The profit share on KVT's could add up to a lot. i am skeptical on the amounts cited but that does not mean i do not believe Kinesis will work. Quite the opposite. i actually fear it will work too well.

KVT's are essentially venture capital founding shares. Large profits are to be expected if the venture works.

KVT's are not the currency. Kinesis currency comes later this year. This is the gold and silver backed crptocurrency. KVT is a share recorded on the Etherium blockchain. The Kinesis currency is intended to have its own blockchain and as such is a coin not a token.

If particular coins are redeemed for metal the coins are extinguished.

[Martlet]

2 hours ago, sixgun said:

The profit share on KVT's could add up to a lot. i am skeptical on the amounts cited but that does not mean i do not believe Kinesis will work. Quite the opposite. i actually fear it will work too well.

KVT's are essentially venture capital founding shares. Large profits are to be expected if the venture works.

KVT's are not the currency. Kinesis currency comes later this year. This is the gold and silver backed crptocurrency. KVT is a share recorded on the Etherium blockchain. The Kinesis currency is intended to have its own blockchain and as such is a coin not a token.

If particular coins are redeemed for metal the coins are extinguished.

Drawing attention to separation of the Kinesis Token and the Kinesis coin does not help much.  In fact is puts a spotlight on the problem.  They are asking for $200m to fund their project to build/release a blockchain via another ICO, of which the exact role isn't explained at all.  Is it the gold being minted into block chain assets, which i always gathered is the whole purpose of this?  Unclear how anyone in future participate if they haven't first bought tokens, its like you have to buy an entrance fee.  I'm sure i've missed something.  There's lots of projection about what the system does for minters, depositors, recruiters, but there's nothing about the ICO mechanics or purpose.  It feels like a couple of pages are missing.  And that $200m is scheduled to be spent over 5 years, which strikes me as a bit odd for something expecting to launch in 6mths, with over half funds allocated to "strategic investment" and "market making".  A cynic might wonder if there's interest from institutional investors, why they have to go through this contrived fund raising and find the investment to not go direct to the ICO / minting stage. 

And nowhere is there any explanation for where the transaction fees come from that drives everything.  Then you have the "perpetual yield" which doesn't square with something that must be sold at some point for goods and services, and the claims that investors retain title on their gold (in the radio interview), in contradiction with the notion the ownership transfers with the coin.  The whole thing feels like the Chewbacca ICO. It does not make sense. 

[999magnum]

Anybody ask Dingus yet?

[sixgun]

@Martlet

They are creating a new legal entity, a company. The KVT's are in effect the shares. The shareholders are entitled to a share of profits. KVT's are not coins they are shares. We see many companies selling shares. It is no different. If there were a 300 million share offer in a new bank or a dating website no-one would bat an eyelid.

These are not shares in the ABX although last year they did offer shares in the ABX.

The pre-ICO coins will be sold to KVT holders (founding shareholders). Founding shareholders will have first go at this as these coins have a bit of a discount i believe. After that anyone can buy coins. A lot of the cash will be needed here as there has to be vaulted metal to mint coins. You can spend $250 million in a heartbeat if you can find the metal. Yes the cash will come back but you need it in the first place. When building a company it takes time. Shareholder funds will be used building the company. The process with most companies takes several years. This is why companies go public, to raise funds to develop the business. The startup here is very cash hungry b/c you are buying pallet loads of precious metal. Company assets will include metal.

i am not clear about the exact mechanics but as far as i am aware i will buy metal on the ABX Metaldesk platform just like i have already but there will be a facility to create a blockchain title of ownership over that metal. i will push a button to create coins. Blockchain title of owership is created. I can then sell coins right off the Metaldesk platform and on settlement the cash will reappear in my account. It looks like the ABX will be the market maker in this. They will make the markets on the Deutsche Börse. The Deutsche Börse does the clearing and settlement.

The KVT's = shares in the company

Kinesis coins = the product

Metal is not being physically minted. Bitcoin is not being physically mined. Kinesis 'coins' are created. Gold and silver comes into the system (vault) and a blockchain title of ownership is created - this is the minting process. A minter buys gold/silver and request blockchain title of ownership which can then be sold through the German stock exchange.

If you do a paypal transaction - a credit card purchase there is a transaction fee. You move Bitcoin around there is a fee. You move Kinesis around there will be a fee. Those who minted the coin that just got moved will share in the fee.

If coins are redeemed for the metal, for after all they are title of ownership over that metal, the coins are extinguished. For as long as the coins exist the minter who created them will get a share of the fees.

Those owning the coins have title of ownership over the metal. i have cash in my Metaldesk account - i see the market on the ABX for buy/sell gold 100g bars in the various ABX hubs. i buy 5 x 100g gold bars. i push the button and create coins - i then see the market in coins - i set the sell price and sell. The gold is sold with my coins. i get cash back and do it again. As creator of the 500 gold coins i will get a 'royalty' as i call it each time those coins change hands until someone down the line redeems them for the gold. In the meantime i may well have minted 50 000 coins so what do it care.

[Lowlow]

My perspective is from the point of view of silver, so to me it's like if you asked what will you demand for your $us, €eu, or £uk, meaning that it doesn't really make much sense to ask.  I guess I'd trade an ounce of silver for 50-100lbs of wheat, if I was hungry.  Today I'd trade an ounce for 30$us so I could go out and buy 1.5oz to replace it lol.  There are situations where I might trade physical silver for other paper instruments, short term, as a trade position, but it would always be with the intention of making a profit and moving back into silver.  To me silver is the currency everything is priced in.  When I see a loaf of bread or a movie rental I'm literally thinking about how much that costs in silver.

[Mildred]

Thanks 6gun, really much appreciated. I start to see some shades on the black screen  

8 hours ago, sixgun said:

@Martlet

 A lot of the cash will be needed here as there has to be vaulted metal to mint coins. You can spend $250 million in a heartbeat if you can find the metal. Yes the cash will come back but you need it in the first place.

which means, if the metal's price increases substantially, the $250M won't be enough.

Could a possible "reset" endanger the start of kinesis, given that they need to cash in advance?

 

 

[Mildred]

The KVT's (shares) will produce a yield (but not as part of some transaction fees, I guess)

The coins will produce a yield (as part of the transaction fees)

Intuitively the yield of the shares should be greater than the yield of the coins.

Do you think it is so?

For someone looking for yield, should he invest now in KVT's rather than later in coins?

[sixgun]

14 minutes ago, Mildred said:

Thanks 6gun, really much appreciated. I start to see some shades on the black screen  

which means, if the metal's price increases substantially, the $250M won't be enough.

Could a possible "reset" endanger the start of kinesis, given that they need to cash in advance?

No i don't think a reset will stop the launch. As far as i can see there is the pre-ICO for currency coins which is reserved for KVT holders. i am mostly invested in the KVT so i will not be getting that many coins. i imagine quite a few will be like this.

So Kinesis will need to create backed coins for this pre-ICO. This will start the process off. It is priming money. The initial coins are sold and then the cash comes back. You can loop it round to get more metal. Beyond this minters will buy their own metal, it is getting the thing going. 

Maguire has said the reset may come before launch date 1st October. I get the impression he thinks it is more likely than not. For those in early and for KVT holder this does not represent a problem. Indeed for KVT holders it is fantastic as the income will rise and so their share really takes off. For the big boys and those who hold gold in hand, no problem. It would be more expensive for those not in gold to get started. So early birds will catch the juicy worms.

If a reset does not come before launch it will not take long. Minters will cycle gold to create coins looking for royalty income. i will make sure i am not in cash over a weekend which is when a reset will occur. As long as i am in gold/coins when the reset arrives it is no problem. If i am in cash then i will lose out if the jump in price is very significant.

[sixgun]

26 minutes ago, Mildred said:

The KVT's (shares) will produce a yield (but not as part of some transaction fees, I guess)

The coins will produce a yield (as part of the transaction fees)

Intuitively the yield of the shares should be greater than the yield of the coins.

Do you think it is so?

For someone looking for yield, should he invest now in KVT's rather than later in coins?

The KVT's get 20% of Kinesis profits. The profits are mainly from the transaction fees.

i have bought KVT''s - money has come out of my ABX account so i know i am in. The KVT profit share is something stupid - i do not let myself think it can be real but they project per KVT it will be $2,713.04 in year one, $ 16,739.99 year two, $ 41,852.72 year three, $ 99,100.71 year 4 and $ 160,703.86 year 5.

Now this is funny money in my mind, so i imagine it will be a tenth of that and beyond that it is a bonus.

I will buy some pre-ICO coins which are better yielding than the ICO's. i will get my initial investment out in cash and buy gold i hold myself and then it is free money. i'll take profits and buy gold, mint coins etc etc. An investment vehicle creating $160k/year is worth millions. Without going into details if this works certain people will be minting and minted.

KVT's are no work - Minting coins is a job and i will need something to do.

Getting in on the KVT's seems like the best bet and then using the income to buy metal to mint Kinesis currency.

It sounds like something crazy when you look at the numbers - the idea is sound and can easily work so i can go with that. My only concern is the government steal the gold.