Hallmark oddities

[SidS]

I recently acquired this vodka cup. I do believe it to be silver, gilded in places. The hallmarks are a car crash however. There are numerous plausible thoughts on this:

1) It's a piece of imported silver, which has been re-stamped by a Russian assay office. - UNLIKELY

2) It's a piece of Soviet era silver with a fraudulent Tsarist hallmark added. - VERY LIKELY

3) It's a piece of Tsarist hallmarked silver that was re-stamped during the Soviet era*. - POSSIBLE

*The 875 hallmark does seem to be punched deeper than the others.

4) It's completely fake. - VERY POSSIBLE

In part I'm very dubious about the date mark, surely there should be a line separating the date from the maker's/Assayer's mark? Above the date the left part also suggests 84 - which this should be Zolotnik 84 - but I've never seen it incorporated into the date mark before, usually it's separate.

The marks on the base seem to suggest somewhere other than Russia.

Thoughts?

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by SidS

[stefffana]

On 16/09/2023 at 09:41, SidS said:

I recently acquired this vodka cup. I do believe it to be silver, gilded in places. The hallmarks are a car crash however. There are numerous plausible thoughts on this:

1) It's a piece of imported silver, which has been re-stamped by a Russian assay office. - UNLIKELY

2) It's a piece of Soviet era silver with a fraudulent Tsarist hallmark added. - VERY LIKELY

3) It's a piece of Tsarist hallmarked silver that was re-stamped during the Soviet era*. - POSSIBLE

*The 875 hallmark does seem to be punched deeper than the others.

4) It's completely fake. - VERY POSSIBLE

In part I'm very dubious about the date mark, surely there should be a line separating the date from the maker's/Assayer's mark? Above the date the left part also suggests 84 - which this should be Zolotnik 84 - but I've never seen it incorporated into the date mark before, usually it's separate.

The marks on the base seem to suggest somewhere other than Russia.

Thoughts?

 

Hi, @SidS. Nice little cup!🤗

 

 "In part I'm very dubious about the date mark, surely there should be a line separating the date from the maker's/Assayer's mark? Above the date the left part also suggests 84 - which this should be Zolotnik 84 - but I've never seen it incorporated into the date mark before, usually it's separate."

 

This mark is correct, it is one known variation of russian hallmark (see screenshots). The assayer is A. Romanov, Moscow, who started assaying from 1885, so the period is good.

The silversmith maker mark is M.Yu.F. I couldn't find his name in silvercollection.it or 925-1000.com encyclopedias, but there are plenty of unidentified silversmith, so I wouldn't be worried about.

I have tried to open this PDF https://cadmus.eui.eu/handle/1814/67252, I am sure there are more informations about Silver Guild of Moscow, but I can not from my tablet. They ask me to provide a Vodafone account and I haven't.

The round stamp with P. is from the word "Privozny" (sometimes Privozny Tovarov), meaning "Imported" or "Imported Goods" .

Edit: the letter "P." is probably from the word " Реквизировано " ( Rekvizirovano),  meaning Requisitioned, not from "Privozny". My mistake. It is Cyrillic, not Latin letter.😊

 This would perfectly explain the rubbed marks from the basement of your cup. I suspect your cup was made in Poland or Finland but I can not be sure. The marks are very unclear.

The 875 punch is a very interesting one. The three digits purity number and the female profile head turned to the right started to be mandatory from 1908, so definitely after the year 1893. After 1917 Revolution, they continued to use the same stamp until 1927 when the system of hallmarking was changed. 

 

I don't think it is a fake. If the object was tested positive as solid silver, it is not any reason to have fake hallmarks of an unknown maker. The solid silver fakes usually are imitations of very well known makers.

 

My final conclusions about your vodka cup are (if it is indeed tested as solid silver):

1. It was made in a territory occupied by Russia, possibly Poland, but because the marks are destroyed, impossible to know exactly where and when.

2. It was assayed in 1893 in Moscow by A. Romanov, at the request of M.Yu.F. silversmith.

3. It was confiscated after Bolshevik Revolution and re-assayed between 1921 and 1927.

 

I hope this helps.

Cheers!

Stefan.🤗

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by stefffana

[SidS]

Brilliant!

I can't thank you enough. 😁

I purchased this as the hallmarks interested me and I like a puzzle. Although I got more of a puzzle than I expected. Funnily enough, I did search through Polish, Finnish, Romanian, Latvian and Lithuanian hallmarks thinking it might be from a Russian province or nearby neighbour, as the marks clearly appeared influenced by Russia, if not exactly Russian.

I stumbled upon the Soviet connection by chance having never had Soviet era silver so I wasn't sure what I was looking for.

There's quite a bit of history in this piece then. I'm delighted with the purchase - it's exactly what I want from my silverware.