Silver Hallmark Assistance

[Arganto]

Hello all,

I picked up a Sterling silver spoon the other day, most of the hallmark is intact apart from the assay office mark. What's left is an odd shape and butts up against the Sterling mark in an odd way but it could just be the way it's worn over time. I'm thinking London 1809;

https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Dates/London/Date Letters O.html

Thoughts?

Edited April 29, 2023 by Arganto
Grammar

[Petra]

If you think you have location and date, try checking out the makers mark to confirm?🤔

[Arganto]

That's the only set of marks on there, 'Unknown', 'Sterling Lion', 'Date O' and (what I presume is) 'Mark of George III'.

I suppose the worn mark could be the maker's mark, but I'd expect the assay office to be on there?

Trawled through the silvermark website a fair while, but may have missed/misunderstood something 😁

32 minutes ago, Petra said:

think you have location

I surmised the location by the appearance of the other marks, I can't make out that first one 🤔

[Fenlander1]

@stefffanaspoon help

[stefffana]

25 minutes ago, Arganto said:

That's the only set of marks on there, 'Unknown', 'Sterling Lion', 'Date O' and (what I presume is) 'Mark of George III'.

I suppose the worn mark could be the maker's mark, but I'd expect the assay office to be on there?

Trawled through the silvermark website a fair while, but may have missed/misunderstood something 😁

I surmised the location by the appearance of the other marks, I can't make out that first one 🤔

Can be 1789, London. I think your "o" letter is small, not capital.

Still not sure 100%...

[Arganto]

7 minutes ago, stefffana said:

Can be 1789, London

Looks a good candidate, also potentially makes it even older. How cool is that, 234 years old 😁

[Petra]

The right hand side mark looks like a duty mark, check to see if this is a raised mark or indented … incused. If incused it is dated 1786 to 1890, however, facing right means it is a kings head🤔

[stefffana]

1 minute ago, Arganto said:

Looks a good candidate, also potentially makes it even older. How cool is that, 234 years old 😁

Yep. Pure history in your hand! You are eating your soup with the same spoon as an english earl from 18th century maybe...I

The earl is underground, you will be in the future, but your spoon can survive and be useful another thousands years.😊

 

 

[Arganto]

1 hour ago, Petra said:

The right hand side mark looks like a duty mark, check to see if this is a raised mark or indented … incused. If incused it is dated 1786 to 1890, however, facing right means it is a kings head🤔

Same as the other marks, George III appeared on all the London hallmarks during his reign according to the silvermakersmarks website 🌞

[Mobius]

Hi, @Arganto
the date letters for 1789 and 1809 are dificult to tell apart, but after looking through a few examples, I think it's 1809. The shape of the 1798 'o' is slightly more elongated than the 1809 'O'. Still, like @stefffana, I'm not 100% either!

The leftmost mark is the wrong shape to be the leopards head (or any other assay mark) and I can make out what appears to be letters, so I reckon thats the makers mark (if it was the assay mark it would also be equidistant from the other marks, as the makers mark was stamped by the maker and the rest of the marks were stamped at the assay office so they sometimes don't line up well). The absence of an assay mark is a bit of a mystery tho.

What pattern is the spoon (Fiddle, Old English)? That may help.

 

4 hours ago, Arganto said:

George III appeared on all the London hallmarks

Not just London, all silver was stamped with a duty mark (to pay for the war with America).

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Mobius
c**p spellin'

[stefffana]

"The leftmost mark is the wrong shape to be the leopards head (or any other assay mark) and I can make out what appears to be letters, so I reckon thats the makers mark (if it was the assay mark it would also be equidistant from the other marks, as the makers mark was stamped by the maker and the rest of the marks were stamped at the assay office so they sometimes don't line up well). The absence of an assay mark is a bit of a mystery tho."

 i totally agree with @Mobius on here! I was thinking the same, but I've been too lazy to type it down. Thank you!🤗

[Mobius]

@stefffana Lazy git 🤣

[Petra]

3 hours ago, Arganto said:

Same as the other marks, George III appeared on all the London hallmarks during his reign according to the silvermakersmarks website 🌞

Yes .. as the duty mark

[Mobius]

I think the makers mark might be Peter & William Bateman, it looks like the Lion Passant has overstruck the right hand side of it.

 

[stefffana]

Just now, Mobius said:

I think the makers mark might be Peter & William Bateman, it looks like the Lion Passant has overstruck the right hand side of it.

 

Yep. Now, @Arganto's porridge will be tastier!😘

[Arganto]

Thanks all, an education indeed.

I'll post some pictures of the entire spoon when I get home 🌞

[Mobius]

The Peter and William Bateman mark also confirms it's 1809 as that mark was registered in 1805.

[Arganto]

Le spoon;

[Mobius]

Old English pattern, and a fine example. Can't make out if it's a tea spoon or a dessert spoon, how long is it?

Edited April 29, 2023 by Mobius

[Arganto]

11 hours ago, Mobius said:

Old English pattern, and a fine example. Can't make out if it's a tea spoon or a dessert spoon, how long is it?

It's a tea spoon, 5 2/16" long

Also, after reading the comments I have looked again and can't believe I missed that 'P' and 'W' in the faded hallmark...I'm getting lazy, I must use a loupe more and pay attention 🌞

Edited April 30, 2023 by Arganto

[stefffana]

@Arganto, lazy git! 🤣🤣🤣

 

@Mobius, your turn, bud!

[Arganto]

Thank you to all who posted and put the effort in to look for answers. It'll make me look more carefully at what's in front of me going forward that's for sure.

So far not found a good answer as to why the assay office mark may be missing, I may pick up a book or two on the subject rather then keep poking around on internet search engines. I will never stop begging on TSF though! 😁

 

[SidS]

No city mark. Could be London, however, York silver frequently omits a city stamp. Although I can't see an o with the correct stamp outline.

London is the most likely. However, do check out other provincial city marks. I'm not sure if Exeter or Newcastle were as relaxed about including the city mark as York was.

Edited April 30, 2023 by SidS