Pseudo Marks?

[AsYouLIkeSilver]

I bought a bowl, which looks like a waste bowl, and the markings are perplexing.  The bowl is definitely silver.  The first thing that jumps out at me is the date letter mark of J, which is not on the charts.  The next is the rampant lion facing right, not left.  Anyone has any opinions/knowledge on the marks?

Edited September 22, 2022 by AsYouLIkeSilver
Forgot photo

[Arganto]

 Fuller White, London. Is it definitely a J or potentially an F? The lion is facing left and is more or less in line with the maker's mark and town mark, if the date letter is oriented the same way rather than upside down to make it a J which isn't used as a date stamp. 

[Arganto]

https://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilvermarksXF3.html

[sixgun]

These marks are old - the leopard wears a crown (London Assay Office) and Fuller White was making silver in the 1700's.
This collection of marks is given as being from 1752. i don't have time to look now but this is the sort of time period to look at. The date letter looks like J which hasn't been used for a long time but i don't know about the situation as early as this piece is. Certainly not 'pseudo marks'.

Edited September 23, 2022 by sixgun

[Arganto]

I'd say 1753 which is technically an 'S' but appears thus:

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Arganto

[Arganto]

Can we have a picture of the whole item? Maybe its purpose can be identified plus it's always nice to see old silver out in the wild.

[sixgun]

@Arganto - yes indeed - it isn't an upside down J - it could explain why the J is not used b/c in the early hallmarks it could be confused - a theory i just made up now.

This is an archaic form of s - as shown here.

i discovered something new out of this - in the pre-decimal era prices would be written like this 7/11 - this was seven shillings and eleven pence. The / is not an oblique separating the numbers it is an old s for shilling. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by sixgun

[Arganto]

3 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The / is not an oblique separately the numbers it is an old s for shilling. 

The more you know! That's interesting 

[sixgun]

15 minutes ago, Arganto said:

The more you know! That's interesting 

i suspect in 1753 when prices were written people would put 1 ſ 3 - they knew the ſ was an 's' for shilling. By the time we get to 1953, people had long forgotten the old form of s and as it was written it evolved from ſ into a /  because people just didn't realise what it really (had) meant.

i can vaguely remember pre decimal prices as a child - i just asked someone else who lived during that period and they didn't realise either.  Amazing, i love finding out something new.

Edited September 23, 2022 by sixgun

[stefffana]

2 hours ago, Arganto said:

 Fuller White, London. Is it definitely a J or potentially an F? The lion is facing left and is more or less in line with the maker's mark and town mark, if the date letter is oriented the same way rather than upside down to make it a J which isn't used as a date stamp. 

 

1 hour ago, sixgun said:

These marks are old - the leopard wears a crown (London Assay Office) and Fuller White was making silver in the 1700's.
This collection of marks is given as being from 1752. i don't have time to look now but this is the sort of time period to look at. The date letter looks like J which hasn't been used for a long time but i don't know about the situation as early as this piece is. Certainly not 'pseudo marks'.

 

42 minutes ago, sixgun said:

@Arganto - yes indeed - it isn't an upside down J - it could explain why the J is not used b/c in the early hallmarks it could be confused - a theory i just made up now.

This is an archaic form of s - as shown here.

i discovered something new out of this - in the pre-decimal era prices would be written like this 7/11 - this was seven shillings and eleven pence. The / is not an oblique separating the numbers it is an old s for shilling. 

 

38 minutes ago, Arganto said:

The more you know! That's interesting 

 

23 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i suspect in 1753 when prices were written people would put 1 ſ 3 - they knew the ſ was an 's' for shilling. By the time we get to 1953, people had long forgotten the old form of s and as it was written it evolved from ſ into a /  because people just didn't realise what it really (had) meant.

i can vaguely remember pre decimal prices as a child - i just asked someone else who lived during that period and they didn't realise either.  Amazing, i love finding out something new.

Excellent, guys!🤗  A top A+++++ team work! I love it!

@AsYouLIkeSilver, can you share more pictures, please?

[LawrenceChard]

51 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i suspect in 1753 when prices were written people would put 1 ſ 3 - they knew the ſ was an 's' for shilling. By the time we get to 1953, people had long forgotten the old form of s and as it was written it evolved from ſ into a /  because people just didn't realise what it really (had) meant.

i can vaguely remember pre decimal prices as a child - i just asked someone else who lived during that period and they didn't realise either.  Amazing, i love finding out something new.

That's a good theory, but...

Did you know the same / separator was almost used between pounds and shillings, hence 5/10/6 for £5.10s6d?

😎

[sixgun]

40 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

That's a good theory, but...

Did you know the same / separator was almost used between pounds and shillings, hence 5/10/6 for £5.10s6d?

😎

Before 1971 money was divided into:

pounds (£ or l )

shillings (s. or /-) and

pennies (d.)

http://projectbritain.com/moneyold.htm

So the £ symbol was | whist the shilling was /-
The /- was simplified to / when it was followed by the pence.
i take it the | is derived from L for libra.