Queen’s Beasts gone mad?

[Howie]

I,m trying to understand why a 1oz Queens Beast Bullion Gold Coin, unlimited edition costs more than a limited Proof Coin of the same category?

[goldmember44]

Perhaps only the lion might. But the proof queen's beast 1 oz gold coins cost even more than the bullion lion...

[DaKine]

In general, this can occur if the supply/demand curve favours the first. This can happen if fewer were made or for some reason they are preferred by potential buyers.

Not sure about this particular coin however.

[Howie]

50 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

Perhaps only the lion might. But the proof queen's beast 1 oz gold coins cost even more than the bullion lion...

No! I bought the Griffin, Lion, & Red Dragon Proof Coins for €1850,00 each in 2017 but now the Bullion price is way beyond!

[goldmember44]

1 minute ago, Howie said:

No! I bought the Griffin, Lion, & Red Dragon Proof Coins for €1850,00 each in 2017 but now the Bullion price is way beyond!

Depends where you buy it ..and the proofs are still more expensive.

[Howie]

33 minutes ago, DaKine said:

In general, this can occur if the supply/demand curve favours the first. This can happen if fewer were made or for some reason they are preferred by potential buyers.

Not sure about this particular coin however.

Not one Coin, The Lion, Griffin and The Red Dragon!

[Howie]

5 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

Depends where you buy it ..and the proofs are still more expensive.

I always look for the cheapest price who wouldn’t? So where’s the logic in Proof being sold for 1850 Pounds or thereabouts and Bullion for 2000 Pounds? Doesn’t make sense to me!

[Howie]

57 minutes ago, DaKine said:

In general, this can occur if the supply/demand curve favours the first. This can happen if fewer were made or for some reason they are preferred by potential buyers.

Not sure about this particular coin however.

Surely a limited edition is a more desirable object than an unlimited one?

[Lr103]

I've wondered about this, as I sold some 1oz gold beasts recently, and was given higher buy price bids from a dealer for bullion than for a proof.  The proofs were listed on their site for more than 2x what was offered, and the bullion only a couple hundred dollars more.

My conclusion, especially when looking at the dealer prices as shown above, is that the proofs are much less liquid and therefore have a higher bid/ask spread, like an illiquid stock or bond.  Due to supply and demand, the dealers expect the bullion to sell quicker than the proofs.  When buying a proof, the dealer might have money tied up for a very long time because there are less buyers of proofs relative to bullion.  During this time gold can decline, but more importantly the money cannot be reinvested in the purchase of new inventory.  This is not good for a dealer when higher turnover means more profit.

Also, you are comparing your 2017 proof buy price, to the 2019 bullion price.  There are less data points, but when these proofs do sell, they often do go for more than the bullion (higher bid/ask spread).  The last 1oz proof to sell on eBay was a lion for over $3,000, and I noticed that APMEX had a Unicorn listed earlier today for $3,800 which seems to have now sold (I just happened to take this screenshot to monitor changes in the price).

 

[Howie]

6 hours ago, Lr103 said:

I've wondered about this, as I sold some 1oz gold beasts recently, and was given higher buy price bids from a dealer for bullion than for a proof.  The proofs were listed on their site for more than 2x what was offered, and the bullion only a couple hundred dollars more.

My conclusion, especially when looking at the dealer prices as shown above, is that the proofs are much less liquid and therefore have a higher bid/ask spread, like an illiquid stock or bond.  Due to supply and demand, the dealers expect the bullion to sell quicker than the proofs.  When buying a proof, the dealer might have money tied up for a very long time because there are less buyers of proofs relative to bullion.  During this time gold can decline, but more importantly the money cannot be reinvested in the purchase of new inventory.  This is not good for a dealer when higher turnover means more profit.

Also, you are comparing your 2017 proof buy price, to the 2019 bullion price.  There are less data points, but when these proofs do sell, they often do go for more than the bullion (higher bid/ask spread).  The last 1oz proof to sell on eBay was a lion for over $3,000, and I noticed that APMEX had a Unicorn listed earlier today for $3,800 which seems to have now sold (I just happened to take this screenshot to monitor changes in the price).

 

Makes sense but the comparison 2017-2019 still stands as I believe the 1oz Proof Coins were priced in 2017 (Royal Mint) at 1880,00 Pounds  and are still priced in 2019 at 1880,00 Pounds. Lets hope it stays that way!

[goldmember44]

The queen's beast proofs are very low mintage, and can be expected to attract considerable collector's premium in the future.

As for the QB bullion pieces, well they are more high-end "bullion" coins and are definitely more numismatic in nature and considered so by investors and collectors, than normal bullion coins... because the series is very popular, the most popular from the royal mint that we have seen.

I would like to see mintage figures of the bullion pieces. I think when that is released when all the coins are on the market, there will be some that are scarcer and would attract higher prices than others. 

[Howie]

41 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

The queen's beast proofs are very low mintage, and can be expected to attract considerable collector's premium in the future.

As for the QB bullion pieces, well they are more high-end "bullion" coins and are definitely more numismatic in nature and considered so by investors and collectors, than normal bullion coins... because the series is very popular, the most popular from the royal mint that we have seen.

I would like to see mintage figures of the bullion pieces. I think when that is released when all the coins are on the market, there will be some that are scarcer and would attract higher prices than others. 

Exactly how I would hope it to be. I started collecting the Bullion 1oz QB,s then opted for the 1oz Proof Coins hoping that the premium would be that much higher. As an OAP I have to speculate to accumulate. Making the right decision isn’t  easy in this market.

[xthomasx]

8 hours ago, Howie said:

Not one Coin, The Lion, Griffin and The Red Dragon!

What do you mean by 'not one coin'? They are all there. I am reluctant to buy bullion at the moment but I check regularly. 

[goldmember44]

2 minutes ago, Howie said:

Exactly how I would hope it to be. I started collecting the Bullion 1oz QB,s then opted for the 1oz Proof Coins hoping that the premium would be that much higher. As an OAP I have to speculate to accumulate. Making the right decision isn’t  easy in this market.

Yes unfortunately this market is not always predictable. It's hit and miss..

[Howie]

12 minutes ago, xthomasx said:

What do you mean by 'not one coin'? They are all there. I am reluctant to buy bullion at the moment but I check regularly. 

I was replying to a post from DaKine he referred to one Coin I replied with the Grafik!

Regards 

[DaKine]

Ah, yes, well what I was getting at was that the mintage of "uncirculated" bullion pieces, even if unlimited, may ultimately be lower. This has happened frequently with the US Gold American Eagle series where the most expensive of the whole 30+ year run are uncirculated coins of certain dates, not the proofs.

So there may actually be a lower final mintage of uncirculated coins in some instances. Also, if for whatever reason, the appearance of an uncirculated coins is preferred then it may become more popular with more demand.

[Lr103]

1 hour ago, DaKine said:

Ah, yes, well what I was getting at was that the mintage of "uncirculated" bullion pieces, even if unlimited, may ultimately be lower. This has happened frequently with the US Gold American Eagle series where the most expensive of the whole 30+ year run are uncirculated coins of certain dates, not the proofs.

So there may actually be a lower final mintage of uncirculated coins in some instances. Also, if for whatever reason, the appearance of an uncirculated coins is preferred then it may become more popular with more demand.

That's an important point.  In the case of the Queen's Beasts the bullion does have a completely different look with the chainmail background.