Documentary: Untold Dark History of the Gold Industry

[AndrewSL76]

@KDave read this: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50044254 because it is really important.

Slavery of UK nationals in the UK is a growing problem. It’s a horrendous truth and it is happening right now in all out towns and cities across the UK. 

Note too that the argument (I don't think) re closing the border will not solve this problem. It would arguably be pushing people into more desperate measures. The answer, in my view, is to tackle to root of the problem of slavery and not concentrate efforts on the effect of slavery.

If the UK did close the borders what effect would this have on clandestine entry to the UK? It would still happen. People come today in lorries and on boats and planes using false documents. Most trafficking networks are sophisticated and operate several steps ahead of the law. They produce high quality false documents to get their victims in. Their victims are under debt or family violence bondage which means they dare not speak the truth or ask for help when passing border control. Borders would be need to be open for people coming with legitimate reasons and these trafficking gangs would be able to circumnavigate this easily - they already do. They don’t need to pay attention to GDPR etc. They don’t need to worry about the police in the UK sharing information with Italy etc because they know there is a need for court orders etc. and they take hours if not days to obtain.  They are always steps ahead of law enforcement.

The reality is that if countries across the globe prospered and there was a mutually beneficial trade and economy, less people would migrate and less people would be subject to such torturous treatment.

This is just my view and I am left of centre, but do have an open mind and can see the perspective of the right who are sick of long waiting lists at hospitals etc. but this is not the effect of migration, it’s the effect of bad governance. 

[KDave]

Immigration at all time highs - Modern Slavery an epidemic. Do we not a link? British Farms are the biggest slave traders in the UK by the looks of things. Who's fault is that, is the farmers? Is it the people coming over to make a few quid an hour. The foreigners who manage the stable of slaves? The bus driver perhaps?

Close the border and the problem goes away. I say again - it is not English, Welsh, Scots, Irish that are being made into slaves with the few exceptions of the mentally ill and drug addicted by the BBC report. It is the Chinese and Vietnamese who are going missing in the hundreds. It is the Albanian women that are being rescued on mass. 

Something that struck me, not sure why I was surprised to see it in a BBC article, they are complete scum; 

"British people rescued from slavery"

"Albanian women were the most exploited"

Two points - first point is 'pick one'. Second point, Albanians are known for trafficking in their own country, is it any surprise that they are bringing these things with them. It is obviously not just the Albanians going by those figures. 

Now an Anecdote - I was in Edinburgh a few weeks ago, I saw dozens of examples of foreign nationals begging, all with the same format of cardboard 'help me' sign. All looking not too badly and willing to engage, politely saying hello as I walked past. It was industrial for want of a better word. I would vouch that the majority were either willing or not, part of an organised effort. It is this kind of thing that people need to be worried about not some fellows wage mining in the Congo. (It also appears to me that if the begging is in fact genuine - as extremely entitled to come to Scotland from another country to beg for a living the local inhabitants but that is another story).

[AndrewSL76]

See page 6: https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/who-we-are/publications/294-modern-slavery-and-human-trafficking-national-referral-mechanism-statistics-october-to-december-2018/file

[KDave]

Roughly half claim to be 'United Kingdom' nationals, so by definition then you can halve modern slavery over night in the UK by closing the borders. I would also claim that most of those claiming to be UK nationals will be dual passport, or of foreign descent though good luck getting that information, it will be hidden no doubt. 

Your points about the illegal crossing on the border making closing of the border pointless, it is correct to point out the problem of our inadequate border control. If we had better border control those 30+ people found dead in the back of a lorry the other week would no doubt be alive. It is our weak borders that killed those people. It is our weak border that is allowing modern slavery to develop and take root in our nation. 

Sort out our problems first, maybe then we can think about the historically proven fruitless task of trying to fix every one elses problems in the world. We know the solution to our problem, but its against the liberal world view to implement it. Close the border, strengthen the border and we will no longer need these failed Modern Slavery act anaesthetic sticking plasters to sooth the conscience, because the problem will go away. 

[silenceissilver]

On 15/11/2019 at 20:21, AndrewSL76 said:

@KDave read this: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50044254 because it is really important.

Slavery of UK nationals in the UK is a growing problem. It’s a horrendous truth and it is happening right now in all out towns and cities across the UK. 

Note too that the argument (I don't think) re closing the border will not solve this problem. It would arguably be pushing people into more desperate measures. The answer, in my view, is to tackle to root of the problem of slavery and not concentrate efforts on the effect of slavery.

If the UK did close the borders what effect would this have on clandestine entry to the UK? It would still happen. People come today in lorries and on boats and planes using false documents. Most trafficking networks are sophisticated and operate several steps ahead of the law. They produce high quality false documents to get their victims in. Their victims are under debt or family violence bondage which means they dare not speak the truth or ask for help when passing border control. Borders would be need to be open for people coming with legitimate reasons and these trafficking gangs would be able to circumnavigate this easily - they already do. They don’t need to pay attention to GDPR etc. They don’t need to worry about the police in the UK sharing information with Italy etc because they know there is a need for court orders etc. and they take hours if not days to obtain.  They are always steps ahead of law enforcement.

The reality is that if countries across the globe prospered and there was a mutually beneficial trade and economy, less people would migrate and less people would be subject to such torturous treatment.

This is just my view and I am left of centre, but do have an open mind and can see the perspective of the right who are sick of long waiting lists at hospitals etc. but this is not the effect of migration, it’s the effect of bad governance. 

What nonsense

Migrants come because the Western European countries send the signal that migrants are welcome. People who clearly are no refugees are not being deported after endless legal processes whereas it's clear they are not refugees straight away already because if they really were they could just move the next country and there they would not be prosecuted any longer.

Make everyone who wants to come in sign that they will not claim any benefits ever and pay for their own deportation should they break the rules.

Smugglers are only successful now because they have the support of authorities. Just read the UN migration pact which the UK under Theresa May signed. Any government doing that clearly welcomes mass immigration because the UN migration pact basically makes it an obligation for Western countries.