Red spots on PCGS American Silver Eagles

[MickD]

Just sorting through some PCGS American Silver Eagles and noticed a lot of them have developed red spots.  Really disappointing but I have read elsewhere that PCGS coins can be submitted for a 'spot review'.  My NGC eagles seem to be fine.  Thankfully, I have a lot more NGC than PCGS.  Grateful for any advice. 

[MickD]

Guessing there's not a lot of interest in PCGS graded american eagles then?  I'll get in touch with PCGS and see what they say.

[MickD]

Hi, just checked a few other PCGS coins yesterday, including pandas, they also have red spots (more red toning around the rims).  I've contacted PCGS but to be honest, I'm tempted just to dump them and the eagles in a local auction and forget about them.  Don't think I'll be collecting PCGS going forward.  Looking online and on e-bay, I think it's quite common, with some sellers mentioning it but still asking quite a high price.

If it arrived like that but wasn't clear in the photos, I think you're right to go to the seller.  Check the serial number, lots of them use stock photos.  Good luck.

[Blockhead]

7 minutes ago, MickD said:

Hi, just checked a few other PCGS coins yesterday, including pandas, they also have red spots (more red toning around the rims).  I've contacted PCGS but to be honest, I'm tempted just to dump them and the eagles in a local auction and forget about them.  Don't think I'll be collecting PCGS going forward.  Looking online and on e-bay, I think it's quite common, with some sellers mentioning it but still asking quite a high price.

If it arrived like that but wasn't clear in the photos, I think you're right to go to the seller.  Check the serial number, lots of them use stock photos.  Good luck.

It looks like your last paragraph is replying to my post, but I for one can't see my post anymore. I think the website has been down a lot over the last twenty four hours. 

I've been asked to send photos. I sent photos including one through a loupe so they can see close up as well. 

I'll see what the seller says and open a case if necessary. Good luck with future acquisitions. It is enough to restrict us to buying cheap purely for the Pm value

[Blockhead]

[MickD]

Hi @Blockhead, just got back on myself.  My NGC slabs aren't nearly as bad but some have bad milk spots (but to be fair to sellers some of them were mentioned).  Canadian coins are bad but also philharmonics and Somalian elephants.  Certainly changed my strategy going forwards.

 

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Added 0 minutes later...

Aye, see it, just like my eagles.

[MickD]

Got a reply from PCGS (which is to their credit as I wasn't really expecting one).  Apparently, they no longer do the spot review but the customer service representative thought the restoration service might be perfect for me.  Not really the response I was hoping for.  Even if they were restored, what's to say the spotting won't come back?  Tempted just to stick the lot in a local auction with a reserve that covers the bullion value.  Don't fancy getting involved with selling on e-bay.  Suppose we live and learn, thankfully didn't spend an awful lot on any of them.

[RogerBelmar]

I sometimes wonder what’s the point of stacking silver at all when you have to deal with the possibility of your silver stack tarnishing. None of these problems occur with gold.

[CoinFinders]

Just to pile on...  🙂    The pictures provided were a bit fuzzy, but the spots look like staining or toning caused by a very small droplet of water in the air that landed on the coin.  American Gold Eagles are 90% gold, and the rest is copper and silver -- both of which tarnish easily.  The red spots are probably more orange and sometimes referred to as "copper spots" in the trade.  How that droplet got there is a question for the grading services.

[Bimetallic]

On 19/12/2018 at 17:25, CoinFinders said:

Just to pile on...  🙂    The pictures provided were a bit fuzzy, but the spots look like staining or toning caused by a very small droplet of water in the air that landed on the coin.  American Gold Eagles are 90% gold, and the rest is copper and silver -- both of which tarnish easily.  The red spots are probably more orange and sometimes referred to as "copper spots" in the trade.  How that droplet got there is a question for the grading services.

A bit more than 90% at 91.7% gold.

Copper and silver tarnish on their own, but do they tarnish in a Crown gold alloy? I've never heard of gold Eagles showing tarnish.

[Bimetallic]

Question: How are PCGS coins sealed? Do they use a nitrogen atmosphere, or vacuum sealing, or do they keep air/oxygen trapped inside the slab?

[CoinFinders]

I've seen copper spots on certified Gold American Eagles, and also pre-1933 American Gold Coins.  I've never seen them on an uncertified coin.  Here's my theory (this is just my conjecture):  PCGS and NGC does not use a "closed atmosphere" in their grading rooms, and ditto when the coins are sealed.  Also, PCGS is located in Newport Beach, California, and a couple miles from the ocean.  I believe that also affects the coins, especially the .999 and .9999 silver coins they certify.  It only takes a microscopic water droplet to start the toning process.  PCGS and NGC protects their slab sealing process (which I have no insight, but heartily agree) as this is our #1 defense against counterfeits.  In my "junk box," I have over 300 certified proof and unc Silver Eagles that developed milk spots after they were slabbed.  Around ~100 of them have the spots in the exact same location on the coin, which tells me they were not handled properly.  I had a client recently offer me a Mint Sealed monster box of 2009 Silver Eagles, and guess what?  All 500 of them were just fine, though a number of them developed some nice rim toning along the way.

[CoinFinders]

Here's a nice article (but a bit dated from NGC) and has some good pictures about copper spots on a gold coin:

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/1197/gold-coin-grading/

 

[silenceissilver]

According to the German PM dealer in this video, red/rust-brown spots on fine gold coins can eventually develop from tiny silver particles on the embossing machine, pressed onto the gold, when gold and silver are minted in the same room. At least in this case it has nothing to do with copper. (I think the Austrian mint said they have gold and silver production completly seperated, so this shouldn't happen on Austrian Philharmonic gold coins. No clue how the other big mints handle this, maybe it's standard for them). This guy in the same video also said, the Canadian mint's new process to avoid milk spots on Maples, bascially is to cover them with some kind of varnish. There would have been a company that wanted to colour the Maples and couldn't because of it, so they removed this varnish, then they could paint on them but also milk spots would be an issue again, potentially. I think he also made a video once about red copper spots on gold coins, but I can't remember for sure.