PeteUK1960

Have just heard back from Atkinsons and the deal is 148 x full sovereigns total 49,040 and 20 x 1/2 oz Britanias total 14,829 grand total 63,869. This equates to 98.5% spot.

Interesting facts

US national debt increases by 330,000 per second.

A 2% rise in interest rates would mean the total US GDP wouldn`t cover the interest.

The gold/silver ratio is the highest in history at 65/1. True ratio historically is 15/1.

For every one ounce of gold above ground there are 50 ounces on unallocated paper contracts.

Banks all over the world are buying gold at a rate never seen before.

4 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I think it is interesting for other people to consider the trials and tribulations that some people go through with big bars of gold like this. 

I would be careful about sharing names, company details etc. Probably best to anonymise as much as possible and just share different quotes for what they are. 

Duly Noted

Question,

Is this interesting or should I keep the business to myself? Be blunt I wont cry..

He cant have got this right?

Hi Pete,

Thank you for your reply.
The offer price for the bars is based on 98.5% of spot with the coins being based on the appropriate quantity tier discount that is on each coin’s listing.

Kind regards,
Ben

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

I don't know if they are connected, all I can say is I sold some gold and silver scrap to them and they paid me spot price for them both. 

The only reason I mentioned it is I`m awaiting a reply from BBP

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

Google The Gold Exchange Birmingham, I have used them and they paid me spot price for my gold. 

At least then you get more cash to make a retail purchase from whoever you wanted to go with. 

I believe those and BBP are one and the same?

2 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I would say you can get better prices for the gold from some scrap dealers than that offer!

I think I agree

6 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

Off that retail figure they're effectively paying you 40.84 per g x 1500g? 

which is 95% spot and no discount on coins am I right?

1 minute ago, PeteUK1960 said:

Spot is 43 dead, what you recon?

 

Thats 95% spot and no discount on coins am I right?

1 minute ago, modofantasma said:

Off that retail figure they're effectively paying you 40.84 per g x 1500g? 

Spot is 43 dead, what you recon?

Just had a reply from Atkinsons adds up to 61,259 retail. 

Thank you for your reply.
We’ve worked out a transaction for you which is substantially higher than the price shown on our website.
We propose the below quantity of coins which will mean no funds changes hands.
20x 2021 1/2oz Gold Britannias
147x 2021 Full Sovereigns

1x 2021 Half Sovereign

We’ve tried to give you the best possible deal, please contact us to discuss how you would like to proceed from here on.

1 hour ago, HerefordBullyun said:

I don't have the plaice or the thyme to explain this too you. 

Haddock the thyme to do this I'd be roe-ing in with my codfather of all jokes on my perch!

Oh god how long before someone suggests a motor pike and side carp 

1 hour ago, Roy said:

I agree.

Perhaps convert 2 bars into 32 x 1 oz coins. That's your permastack for the grandkids, put into storage.

The other bar convert into sovereigns. It should buy you 60+ if my brain is in gear? These you can keep at home, just three tubes to be hidden around the house somewhere.

Ultimate flexibility. if you need some extra cash, perhaps fancy a boat or a foreign holiday or your kids get in strife you can release the funds very quickly (advertise them on here at spot and they'll sell within the hour, money in your account immediately). There will be greater interest in older sovereigns than modern shiny ones, however.

The conversion percentages are an example and up to your own discretion of course. It's always fun to make plans with other people's money 

Good luck whatever you decide 👍

😃 Hundred percent agree,

3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

You should be able to get lower premiums on one ounce gold coins than on half ounce ones, and lower prices on "generic" gold sovereigns rather than on new ones.

To repeat my main advice: if you are inveting in gold, try to buy at the lowest (percentage) premium within reason.

I`m allways up for a day trip to Blackpool 👍

1 hour ago, Roy said:

It's called  'Sovereign Wealth Preservation' for good reason 

I think Lawrence has offered good advice, and perhaps a lifebelt Pete?

It wouldn't hurt to have a chat or if you're a man of leisure like me, perhaps a day trip to discuss in depth and enjoy some tat, cockles and rock.

Love it Roy and yes a fellow man of Leisure, donkeys years involved in that silly F1 debacle and got out while I could still feel it ticking. As I`ve said before I know its a problem most would love to have I just want my grandkids to get a leg up.

12 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

the simple answer is how many forum members do you think would put the lions share of their safety net

funds into kinesis? then look at how many seek a safety net with sovereigns. there are a lot of practical

reasons why sovereigns win out versus many other options not just kinesis, and usually sovereigns win

by a large margin.

 

my guess is not without a noticeable percentage hit.(how many forum members have 500g worth of

cgt free gold to swap out?). I don't think the odds are that great and dealers need to make a profit.

 

this is why I recommend that the op tries to time a spike up before selling. a 1+% spike up in a day should

hopefully be followed by a fill the gap move. if you time it to coincide with a larger cycle 'already over

bought' you can wait for a return to base of maybe 2%. it won't turn a profit for traders but you can stand

to reduce costs of buying and selling by ~3%. each cost reduction of 1% is £200 for each bar or a total

cost saving of maybe £1800 if it happens as planned. if op is unlucky/lucky enough for gold to make

significant rises after he has sold a bar then he'll be holding 1kg worth of gold plus about £22k worth

of waiting currency. which is not too bad a situation, all things considered(his 1kg of gold would probably

be no longer in the £red by then). what I'm saying is the risks should be minimal if he gets unlucky. he is

likely to have some costs swapping the bars for sovereigns but he can try a small risk way of reducing

those costs. it will take him some time and some planning but imo the cost saving of maybe £1800 is

worth the effort should he be able to pull it off. note op must sell his bars one at a time for the risk to stay

low.

I'm guessing selling bar cost of 2% and buying sovereigns cost of <5%(if you are buying in batches of

£5k each time, you can haggle for better prices as a repeat customer) so 7% in total. if he can save 3% on

favourable timing of the gold price then that gets reduced to 4%. (which is still £2400 in costs but is

better than the £4200 he would have paid).

(also learning about gold and it's price cycle should be useful for the future)

this is the best I can come up with right now.

 

HH

For a starting point I`ve asked Atkinsons and BBP and are both interested in trading, I`ve said I want 1/3 in half oz new and 2/3 in new sovereigns.

This is for all 3 bars so will be interesting to see what they come back with.

15 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

It's a pity that @PeteUK1960 didn't check in at TSF before buying from the Royal Mint.

Lots of people probably do, because they get lots of free publicity from the mainstream media, but they are usually the most expensive seller of gold bullion in the UK.

I just took a look at their half kilo bars page. They don't make it easy and tell you thier premiums (we do). Currently they charge about 4% premium on 2 or more.

We happen to charge 3.3%% for similar new bars, but we would not recommend them for investment. Previously owned would cost about half the premium, and our normal advice is buy coins rather than bars.

In fact my usual advice is to buy at the lowest premium within reason.

We have a number of FAQ and advice pages, starting here:

https://www.chards.co.uk/info/investing-in-gold

As someone has already said, the mistake is in the past.

My suggestion is to see if a dealer will exchange them for coins, and if so, at what rate?

You could try asking the RM how much they would buy them back for. I would certainly be interested, and so would many here on TSF.

Quick note: the RM charge 1% plus VAT per annum for storage, at @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer, we charge half of that, plus an initial admin charge for goods not bought from us.

It could be worth speaking to one of our Customer Service team to discuss it. We would not want to pay more than spot for the bars, at most, but an exchange might work out for you.

Another thought, but too late to help you: If you had spent the same amount on one ounce gold bars, they would have been easier to resell, and you could have bought them for about the same premium.

I advise you don't rush into your next move in a great rush. Take your time, try to weigh up the varying advice before you decide.

I don't know if any of the above helps.

I`ve heard back from both Bullion by post and Atkinsons and both are interested in trading the bars for coins, I`ve told them both I`m looking for 1/3 in half oz new and 2/3 in new sovereigns all British. I`ll let you know what they offer.

3 hours ago, Pete said:

You might want to check out the boxes of sovereigns here - https://atkinsonsbullion.com/special-offers?utm_source=Atkinsons+Bullion+%26+Coins+-+GDPR&utm_campaign=6efe5ffd63-Special+Offers!Save+a+Bundle+on+Gold+%26+Silver_COPY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3cac732c79-6efe5ffd63-106640401

 

I`ve messaged them thanks.

52 minutes ago, Pete said:

You will see how helpful fellow forum members are in trying to both share their own direct experience and offer some advice.
The problem ( not a bad one to have ! ) is that you have 3 x 500g bars worth about £22k each.
It is a store of wealth for sure and easily kept in a (Metro perhaps ? ) safe-deposit box.
I would guess it will be impossible to sell privately and and who is going to trust whom ?
Your only option would be to sell to a bullion dealer and they might need some time to verify the bar and that it isn't just a gold plated bar of tungsten.

Initially I was going to suggest you wait until gold increases in price so that you could sell at breakeven but if you are intent on holding gold for the longer term then the price really doesn't matter. You are selling and buying the same weight so whatever the price on the day is wholly irrelevant.

The problem you may come across is twofold - supply and premium.
Buying sovereigns is a good strategy but only if you can buy at a fair premium and not overpay if supplies are limited.
If you can exchange into gold coins and sovereigns aren't available in sufficient quantity or reasonable price then buy any gold coins that are only a few percent over spot but are preferably 24 carat like Maples, newer Britannias, Krugerrand etc. You are not a coin collector so it doesn't matter and you can always sell back and buy sovereigns at a later date.
Failing that you could buy best value gold bars 50g or thereabouts. It is all about staying in the game and not the variations in price.

Timing the market is a mugs game in your situation.
Buyers of gold will wait hoping for a decent dip whilst sellers of gold are praying for rises.
You shouldn't really care as you are remaining invested in gold.
Waiting on gold to rise to sell only means you are going to pay more for your coins and smaller bars.
If you sell and wait, the price of gold can continue to rise so you will have missed the growth potential.
It is impossible to predict peaks and dips but very rarely someone might strike lucky.
If gold falls then many people will not sell so the availability of coins etc diminishes.
If gold rises then some will sell to take profit but your buy price rises and if there is more demand then the dealers increase their premiums.

In conclusion if I was in your shoes what would I do ?
I would consider selling 1 bar to swap into smaller bars and coins, sovereigns - if there are sufficient.
Give a call to HGM, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost, Chards and ask if they could supply 500g of fine gold in coins and small bars and see if they could trade on a 3% or less premium over spot. If one of them has sufficient inventory then ask if they would buy your 500g bar for as near to spot as possible - maybe 98% ?? If yes then it might be possible to strike a deal and fix everything whilst physical exchanges takes a day or so but the deal is locked solid. It doesn't matter if gold tanks or rises to the moon the following day because you remain with 500g of gold. If the dealer can supply 1kg or 1.5kg at the time then go "all in" and get rid of your bars. At the end of the day you will see that there have been losses in paying a premium to the RM day 1 then a second premium buying coins etc and a small premium selling your bars. Added up this might amount to 10% but in a year gold could swing 30% so if you aren't willing to absorb the losses, hold your bars in your vault until hopefully you can sell at a profit but if you buy back into gold then you will still have incurred the same percentage losses. 

Please note this is nothing more than friendly banter, or simply "food for thought", as to what I would do, but please don't take this as financial advice as I am not qualified to make recommendations of any sorts.
 

 

 

I cant believe how great the folks here are and its honestly a great comfort. You make perfect sense and I fully intend to keep my gold and silver for the long haul. As you have probably gathered I rushed into purchasing without getting correct advice for my needs but I`ve had great solutions suggested. I`m acutely conscious that I have a first world problem to solve and it could be a lot worse, I`m also aware that I`m maybe not in the right place because my focus is fiscal where you guys are dedicated to element 79. However, I`m learning an awful lot.

Cheers Pete 

6 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

Or swap them like for like.
I bet you could find someone on here who has a lot of gold coins & would prefer some nice chunky bars. 
Probably a dealer though. 

I might be wrong but surely capital gains is not applicable in a swap. 
You might have to pay for an armed guard though as it would have to be an in person thing

I assume you have access to it and its not held in a vault. 
On that note I would be very careful going forward not to disclose any personal information. 
Pretty obvious I know. 

Thank you, currently it is in a safety deposit box in a local bank and I can access it 7 days a week. In line with what HawkHybrid said I will sell it at the right point and commit the proceeds to buying sovereigns, however, if theres a significant rise in spot I could consider a straight swap.

11 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

I didn't say that.

you know that you should be holding the vast majority in gold sovereigns.

why is your next move to not fix your earlier mistake and make a plan to convert

the majority to gold sovereigns. how does transferring everything to kinesis enable you to

hold gold sovereigns?

the bars were only a mistake, we all make mistakes.

if you sell the bars and use the proceeds to buy sovereigns you should be fine.

this would incur a cost both when you sell and when you buy.

to reduce this cost you can try and time the markets.

you don't need to time it perfectly just a few % will reduce your cost to transfer.

to set up a plan to do this you should know a few things.

1. the gold price does not move up in a straight line.

2. you have time on your hands to wait for the gold price to drop after you sell.

3. the gold price has cycles.

4. you don't need to turn a profit, the aim is to reduce the cost to transfer from bars

to sovereigns.

 

I recommend you wait for gold to spike up in the next cycle(1+% rise in a day) then immediately

sell one of your bars. wait for gold to fall a few % from the price you sold at(this could take time),

then buy sovereigns in batches of £5k until you've transferred all the proceeds from that single

bar. wait for the next cycle and repeat with the other bars until complete.

 

you have time to plan out your next move.

 

HH

I`ve clearly got to resist this urge I have to move too quickly and I intend to follow your advice to the letter. 

To try and put a degree of sense to my intention of transferring everything to kinesis, they tell you that you can withdraw your physical at any point you choose to the value of the KAU you own at that time so as I saw it you can grow your stack within their system but with the ability to access your capital via their visa debit card in an emergency. In the event that I withdrew in physical would I not have the opportunity to take it in coins?

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I sympathise with you investing a substantial part of your savings in 3 gold bars at a time gold was sliding from its previous peaks.
If you bought at £45 per gram in early January 2021 after seeing August 2020 spot at £50 per gram you probably believed that gold would bounce back up and especially with global COVID and all the " experts" predicting the end of the world and that's not even mentioning Brexit !
Okay you made your decision and spot is down on what you paid but remain calm and don't panic.
You will only loose if you sell now so unless you need to liquidate a bar just sit tight.
Nobody knows whether gold will fall or rise but if you are uncomfortable holding so much gold and fearing further drops then maybe sell a bar and wait with your cash to buy back but not a 500g bar, maybe Krugerrands as often the cheapest gold coins but still fine gold.

A couple of points to consider though -

I am guessing that you paid about 4.25% over spot when purchasing your bars from the RM
That seems expensive because you are gaining nothing by having a tradeable "quantum" valued at £22,000
With such a premium you could have purchased 16 x 1 oz coins ( whilst also eliminating the risk of CGT ) per bar.
Selling a few ounces from time to time would not commit you to liquidating one third of your portfolio in one go.

Since selling your gold will be extremely easy and almost instant, literally over the phone, or under an hour in a train to Hatton Garden London or the Jewellery Quarter Birmingham, see if any of the big dealers would swap smaller bars and coins for your 500g bars. You don't want to sell without replacing your gold so a sort of exchange. Some will do deals especially with 1.5kg to trade.

You cannot post a 500g bar using Special Delivery as it has a limit of £2,500 in compensation so you might end up having to hand carry a bar to a dealer.

Lot's of nice people on this site and plenty of tips so welcome !
 

 

Great advice very much appreciated, Andrew Maguire predicts a 1480 spot at the back end of this year after Basel 3, if we are lucky and that comes off I`ll trade for coins and should at least break even, as for the silver, it has utility as well as monetary value and at some point there will be a squeeze so I plan to sit on that for longer but ultimately exchange it for coins.

Yes totally agreed, I cocked up by buying the bars as I can only spend them by exchanging them for fiat, I`m not hiding the fact I`m an idiot I`m just trying to figure out the next move.

On 20/05/2021 at 09:40, modofantasma said:

I wouldn't see the benefit in selling at a loss to buy more gold. Sure if you needed the money quickly you might have to take a hit. 

Could there be a possibility of trading? Eg could you swap 1 of the bars with someone for xx number of sovereigns or 1 oz coins.  It might suit someone whose stack has grown beyond their expectations and wants to consolidate some of it instead of having loads of different pieces. 

If you don't need the money at the moment though why not just wait until you're back in the green then sell at break even or a gain and buy in your chosen pieces? 

Yea that sounds like sound advice, I was hoping maybe I could deposit it into my Kenisis account but unfortunately once you have taken posession of your physical the chain of possession is broken and they will no longer take it, seems weird but thats what they told me over the phone. My fear for the imminent fate of Fiat and the inevitability of hyper inflation is freaking me out and being such a newbie I`m worried about doing the wrong thing. I`m contemplating waiting till my gold (and recent 10kg of silver) go into slight profit and selling then transferring everything into Kinesis. What do you think?