Buying new silver cast bars - condition expecations

[SilverSniper]

Hi,

Can I just run a quick poll on your opinions of whether I'm over-reacting....

I ordered ten silver 100g Metalor cast bars from a supplier (not to be named).  The bars arrived the following day, on opening the box I note the bars are bare, stacked into two stacks of five, with nothing but a skinny elastic band holding the two separate stacks together, and nothing inserted between the bars (bare metal against bare metal).  Each stack was placed into a plastic bag with the CoA's placed within the bag.  So the top CoA's are filthy as they have been rubbing against a stack of bare silver.  My heart sank.

Examining the bars revealed that the bars had been rubbing together in transit, and all but the two front bars were scuffed or scratched on the high points of the bars.  So I have two good bars. two baldy scuffed bars, the other six had minor cosmetic scuffs and flat spots on the high points; I can suffer the six with the minor scuffs, but why should I?

Obviously cast bars have imperfections, and some collectors like that, but should I accept these bars on the basis that as they are cast bars, it should not matter how they look; the silver weight is what is important?  I bought them to re-sell, not sure my customer's would like scuffed 'new' bars either.

My thoughts are that the supplier company should have package them better, as not all silver collectors only buy silver to lock in a vault never to be seen.  Therefore the customer should not be expected to accept 'new' bars that have been damaged in transit, just because the supplier's did not pack them separately.

The company says they will replace them if I feel that strongly about it, but state this is not unusual with cast bars and hint I may not be happy with any replacement cast bars they send either ....... I've never seen this on brand new bars before.

Am I over reacting or would you want replacements too?  Or does anyone know if you buy a large amount of Metalor cast bars, do they all come stacked together, metal against metal so they may have been scuffed even before reaching the distributors?

Cheers, Keith

[HighlandTiger]

Although it's not an answer to your question , but I have to ask why anybody in the UK would buy bars of silver in the first place. By weight they are more expensive than coins, and have practically zero premium upside on them in the resale market in the UK, unlike coins, which have a fall back numismatic added premium.

Each to their own I suppose, but you cant expect the same quality standards on cast bars as you can from coins. 

 

[HelpingHands]

Have you bought coins from the same company before and how did the packing compare?

It seems to be the standard dealer response that their items are sold as bullion only.  If that's the case then why do premiums vary so much.

You should expect any item to arrive with you in the same condition it was in when it was dispatched.  If not, then they haven't packaged it well enough for transit.

[SilverSniper]

47 minutes ago, HighlandTiger said:

Although it's not an answer to your question , but I have to ask why anybody in the UK would buy bars of silver in the first place. By weight they are more expensive than coins, and have practically zero premium upside on them in the resale market in the UK, unlike coins, which have a fall back numismatic added premium.

Each to their own I suppose, but you cant expect the same quality standards on cast bars as you can from coins. 

 

Hi Tiger,

Thanks.  Some of my customers only buy bars; each to their own.

Totally agree that the quality of cast bars cannot be expected to be the same as coins or minted bars, and I'm not expecting pristine condition, but is it acceptable to receive scuffed bars from new?  I've only purchased a few cast bars in the past, and they were all in good condition.  Just want to know whether I'm over-reacting and just accept it.

Cheers, Keith

[SilverSniper]

50 minutes ago, HelpingHands said:

Have you bought coins from the same company before and how did the packing compare?

It seems to be the standard dealer response that their items are sold as bullion only.  If that's the case then why do premiums vary so much.

You should expect any item to arrive with you in the same condition it was in when it was dispatched.  If not, then they haven't packaged it well enough for transit.

Hi HH,

I've bought single items from them before, so it's hard to compare with a multiple-buy.

I totally agree with you with reference to the dispatch and arrive conditions.  I feel the damage to these bars happened during transit from the seller to me, with the metal-to-metal contact due to poor packaging.  I'm little prone to jumping on my high horse with issues like this, and worried I'm over-reacting to something that might be "the norm".

After all if I bought a mirror online, I would not accept it if the mirror arrived with a crack in the glass.

Cheers, Keith

[SilverPirate]

I think everything we buy should arrive as pristine as possible and what happens to them in our stack is then down to us.

I have bought some silver this year from different suppliers and i have been on a bad run of being fobbed off with substandard quality.

I complained on one of the deliveries ,returned it only to receive back more damaged,so i gave up and kept it as bullion.

Another supplier the last two deliveries had slight damaged products.This is on premium stuff.If it was even Maples you expect them to arrive decent but they are bullion like your bars at the end of the day,but when you re-sell them other buyers want them as pristine as possible unless your selling to someone for the melting pot in 30 years time.

A coin from STG is so much cheaper and has the advantage of a possible upside because of the design .

My advice is buy from STG,buy coins and use them as bullion rather than your bars, weight is weight.

Fondle the hell out of your bars with no gloves on and look after the rest.

[Fluttershy]

is there no way you could polish them up at all?

100g bars should easily fit in a small tumbler with some stainless steel shot and soapy water, they`ll come up as good as (and even shinier) than new!

or maybe a buffing wheel with some polishing compound (use the White bars).

just a thought

 

[SilverSniper]

5 hours ago, SilverPirate said:

I think everything we buy should arrive as pristine as possible and what happens to them in our stack is then down to us.

I have bought some silver this year from different suppliers and i have been on a bad run of being fobbed off with substandard quality.

I complained on one of the deliveries ,returned it only to receive back more damaged,so i gave up and kept it as bullion.

Another supplier the last two deliveries had slight damaged products.This is on premium stuff.If it was even Maples you expect them to arrive decent but they are bullion like your bars at the end of the day,but when you re-sell them other buyers want them as pristine as possible unless your selling to someone for the melting pot in 30 years time.

A coin from STG is so much cheaper and has the advantage of a possible upside because of the design .

My advice is buy from STG,buy coins and use them as bullion rather than your bars, weight is weight.

Fondle the hell out of your bars with no gloves on and look after the rest.

Hi Silver Pirate,

Thanks for your advice, all helpful ideas.  I have two hoards of silver in my vault:  My own personal collection where I have various size and brands of bars and coins, all with different designs (I collect designs .... a fall-over from my numismatic collection).  The second part is my small online bullion business; a start-up business but coming along nicely with mostly bars, but more coins coming soon.

Most of my customers go for the bars, as they can get the coins anywhere for a low price but they struggle to get the bars.  I buy the bars in bulk reasonably cheap (but all genuine product) and sell them on for a low mark-up.  The Metalor bars in question are for re-sale, not for my own collection.

You are of course correct about STG, they are great prices and I'd never heard of them before joining this forum.  I have a small(ish) order with them already.

I am being convinced that the scuffed bars should go back for replacement.

Cheers, Keith

[SilverSniper]

4 hours ago, Fluttershy said:

is there no way you could polish them up at all?

100g bars should easily fit in a small tumbler with some stainless steel shot and soapy water, they`ll come up as good as (and even shinier) than new!

or maybe a buffing wheel with some polishing compound (use the White bars).

just a thought

 

Hi FlutterShy,

Your thoughts are appreciated and valid.  I could buy a small buffing wheel kit, but why should I need to do that?  These are new bars, surely they should come to me looking new.

Not sure what you mean by placing them into a 'tumbler'?  Is that like the devices used for polishing stones to make them smooth glossy pebbles?  A very popular hobby in the early 1970's? (showing my age now)

Cheers, Keith

[MCJ]

6 minutes ago, SilverSniper said:

Hi Silver Pirate,

Thanks for your advice, all helpful ideas.  I have two hoards of silver in my vault:  My own personal collection where I have various size and brands of bars and coins, all with different designs (I collect designs .... a fall-over from my numismatic collection).  The second part is my small online bullion business; a start-up business but coming along nicely with mostly bars, but more coins coming soon.

Most of my customers go for the bars, as they can get the coins anywhere for a low price but they struggle to get the bars.  I buy the bars in bulk reasonably cheap (but all genuine product) and sell them on for a low mark-up.  The Metalor bars in question are for re-sale, not for my own collection.

You are of course correct about STG, they are great prices and I'd never heard of them before joining this forum.  I have a small(ish) order with them already.

I am being convinced that the scuffed bars should go back for replacement.

Cheers, Keith

I'd send them back with  a nice roll of bubble wrap and a diagram showing how you would like to receive the replacements ?

[SilverSniper]

4 minutes ago, MCJ said:

I'd send them back with  a nice roll of bubble wrap and a diagram showing how you would like to receive the replacements ?

Hi MCJ,

Totally agree.  They appear to have a daft idea that as it is 'bullion', they don't have to take any care with it.

Cheers, Keith