AuFinger

It's still good value to offload debased fiat for PM right now, assuming you feel you want or need more!

It doesn't seem to have any predictive value, but you can bet that it's value is predictable in hindsight.

In any case though, it's well worth noting that the pairs value generally fluctuates through a fairly consistent range so it makes sense to balance buying according to this trend too probably. Ie, buy mostly silver when silver is relatively cheap, and vice versa with gold.

And when selling, clear the one that is relatively expensive at the time, rather than the one that is relatively cheap.

Talking of ratios : it would be nice to have a single webpage displaying silver price. gold price and ratio together.

Anyone got a link if such a page exists?

I haven't been able to find one on the commoner "thingy price trend" type pages...

http://www.macrotrends.net/1441/gold-to-silver-ratio-historical-chart

Gold is quite expensive against silver right now.

But really who knows.

For everyone who cites the past as a reference for the future, you can also reference what is different these days too.

It's all still very much a gamble, so hedge accordingly.

It may very well be that silver drops hard due to global deflation and lowered demand, but gold could drop harder still and give a 'great' looking ratio. Ie, £5/ounce silver, £150/ounce gold. Either scenario wouldn't be great news for some people!

Silver/Gold ratio is trend low point so whatever happens it's more reasonable to say silver is a better way to go v gold.

I've been eyeing those up too.

I'm Liking the idea of a horse and sheep, so with a combined price approaching £1400 now it's increasingly likely.

Was thinking of a full set over the years. Not sure if proofs would be a better bet but they're not cheap!

I'm amazed they sell anything at their prices!

If you just buy at fixed intervals at a fixed purchase price, then naturally you will buy more when it's cheap, and less when it's expensive.

This is how you invest in things like pensions because you're making regular contributions and essentially buying more when things are cheap and less when expensive.

It's a good way to have no bias in your investment purchases by over-thinking too much.

However, if you follow that logic you need to be buying silver as an investment to make money from it in a specific time frame.

The motivations for buying silver may be quite different to an investment based one. Nor may the potential to make regular purchases always be possible.

Ie, in a years time silver might be £8, but if an EU currency collapse occurs and unemployment surges with you losing your job, the last thing you want to do is buy silver. Thus the 'investment' becomes biased.

You could even argue that people in that situation would feel under pressure to sell some silver to be able to pay their bills, thus biasing things even further.

If prices ever do sky rocket then you will sell the PM for fiat money, but right when the PM price is high in fiat terms, it may be so because the fiat you will exchange it for is becoming worth less. So why sell valuable PM for worth less fiat?

This is the problem with viewing PM as an investment commodity in these markets. The best time to sell from this point on will probably be after the worldwide debt has unwound, and then the world has got back on it's feet.

Until then PM will be hammered lower, made harder to buy, or made illegal, or other strategies to put people off moving wealth into them.

Great that they're lower, till you can't buy them for one reason or another.

So purchase averaging might make some sense if you've been buying for years already and have a stack you won't need to sell in an emergency. But I'd say if you're starting just now and buy £30 a month of silver, well it might all be too late by the time you have just 20 ounces or so.

I'm not sure but I'd bet the margin covers enough, in large enough volumes, to pay for insurance or an equivalent type of underwriting in swings each way in price.

But it'll essentially be a rolling system of cover so the retailer just worries about margin not the base metals costs.

Then there will be tax gain/loss variables, which they won't want to be liable for if prices spike they could have a huge tax bill.

Small volume dealers will naturally struggle as these overheads will be spread over less retail volume meaning lower profit margins AND exposure to volatility both ways.

I guess this is where small dealers need to work that bit harder and also have a bit more luck on their side if they buy/sell volumes that leave them exposed, probably all too easy in such a long bear market, or bear 'manipulation'

Will they be selling at a loss?

I bet their stock is hedged against market price somehow, so they only care about their margin.

More likely no one wants people to buying this cheap silver, but the stock price needs to be this low to tell idiots that stocks are safer than 'safe' PM.

What a Keynesian mess. Viva La unintended consequences!

In USA it sounds like physical is already becoming scarce. Silver Eagle run out?

So commodity price pushed down to say stocks are great, stay confident!

Physical has run out, or another message being narrated to us, so we can't benefit from the resultant low physical price.

This is a perfect example of why waiting thinking prices might go down is s bad idea.

The lower it goes the harder it'll be to buy.

Since my rowing boat capsised with all my silver aboard yesterday, another tube or so from STG is on my cards!

No one wins in the casino except the house.

The only way to win is not to play until it's unwound.

Being in anything at any point now is pretty risky unless you know which way the house is gonna play.

Even cash in the bank isn't safe, just look at Cyprus, Greece, and last I was reading Austria is looking to alter it's deposit protection scheme. Even under crazy EU rules the UK is now lowering it's deposit protection so it's in line with the EU zone level in Euro equivalent value.

However you view it, PM right now are a fantastic buy for the medium and long term.

The casino is manipulated, so trying to use free market analysis will result in confusion.

All you need to know is medium and long term, it's a good buy at the current fiat cost vs your disposable income likelihood for that same timescale.

The casino is manipulated, so trying to use free market analysis will result in confusion.

All you need to know is medium and long term, it's a good buy at the current fiat cost vs your disposable income likelihood for that same timescale.

Problem is when PMs aren't being bashed down to perpetuate the 'awesome' narrative, you won't be able to buy them as people will hold them.

Now is the time to buy, at the subsidised lows while you have a job to be able to buy them.

I'd agree if the book stopped with Greece, but the PIIGS will just become PIIS.

And as debt leverage unwinds the obvious indebtedness of the PIIS is magnified for mere mortals to see, rather than hidden in bamboozling economic speak and accountancy fluff.

I suppose it's called contagion for a reason, and a perfect example of why the times we're in are unsustainable.

Debts sold to others as leveraged collateral for more debt is a recipe for disaster, and a disaster pie is what we're all gonna be eating soon.

The last thing the ponzi needs is members leaving!

The big question will be when free markets overpower Keynesian meddling.

Suddenly you can predict outcomes somewhat successfully.

But suddenly you might find gold and silver prices up but you're out of a job.

Or gold and silver up, and your mortgage up 3x.

Or gold and silver super cheap but no free cash to buy it any way.

Tough times ahead for all involved in Western debt based Keynesian economies!

Looking on the flip side. I suppose a default will only weaken the euro and add to a stronger dollar, so we could see silver go lower. I don't know what to think. lol

Manipulative tampering and free market dynamics trying to fight together over years has caused a real mess.

All I think is that it's cheap right now and a good bet to have something outside of the banks greedy fingers.

Also it's fairly easy to get. Try buying £1,000 BTC, it's a nightmare in comparison!

Getting a safe cold storage and then buying it. A tube of sovs is MUCH easier and works after a CME! Haha.

From what I can see the Troika won't extend their offer beyond June, so a referendum next weekend will be for out, or an "in" that isn't even on the table any more.

Silver and gold will be in the doldrums as long as keeping it low is reinforcing the story that "everything is awesome" in the western debt laden economies.

Well I bought a tube from Atkinsons of 2015 sheep, in tube, sealed, and it had a nice quality foam stop at the top.

All coins look absolutely perfect.

These STG coins are the worst I've bought. The foam filler was just two figure 8 polystyrene packing pieces.

Definitely 'bullion' in nature, not something I'm gonna want to do anything with except send back to a reseller as pure bullion.

In the end that's all I bought it for I suppose, but it's nice to have the flexibility to maybe do something else with them.

I can expect unloading and reloading a tube can cause damage if done roughly, but the tide marks around the ridges seems weird. None of my 14/15 RM silvers I already have have it.

Probably won't use STG again unless you can get guaranteed mint fresh coins in sealed tubes. The entire reason I bought 25 to start with... Not just to get used coins repackaged into an RM tube!

Has anyone here bought full tubes from STG?

I just got a tube of 2015 Brits in an RMB tube but they look like they're used and repackaged.

Small to medium scratches on some. The sides of the coins have what look like subtle tide marks in the gaps.

I have some 2015 Brit from Jan in single cases that look 'mint' in comparison.

STG are cheaper due to no VAT but are their coins used bullion repackaged?

Out of all the bullion I've bought so far this is the bullion most clearly not straight out of RM via a reseller.

I'm new to silver buying but I'd assumed you'd get new if you're buying from places like STG on 2015 coins, and would only get used if you bought used, ie HGM or Atkinsons used etc?

'Twas near here 6 months since, and 8 months too.

It's relatively low so buy if you're holding for a year or more. Inflation will burn off any apparent stasis in value of Ag.

Greece is irrelevant. Lose lose situation. No outcome could make silver drop in a free market. If silver is pushed lower by manipulation then it's essentially subsidised cheap silver!

All imo.

Long term, assuming trends from 70s are somewhat reliable and indicative, and current manipulations don't nuke them entirely.

Gold and silver down, but gold more.

Silver up lots.

Gold down lots.

At current price silver has a stop at 20% value vs gold at nearer 12% (UK RM face value)

Silver is much closer to long term inflation adjusted average than gold is.

If you're picking a PM today silver has a lot more going for it imo, more so without vat.

If you subscribe to chaos prevailing over trends then no pm is a good investment ever.

With UK 1oz you have a stop at £2 in value.

Much more to gain than lose even buying now.

Greece is a big issue but it's lose lose. No outcome would make silver drop. Billions will be lost or written off in any event.

Pushing silver low through manipulation is possible but how likely?

All that does is subsidise the purchase of silver by buyers at high cost. Better to just keep it 'low enough' and to remove bull market signals.

Or don't buy and it goes up

5 years into a bear market and I'd be seeing this as bottom volatility in the bigger picture.

I guess it depends how long you want to hold it for, but I can see much bigger long term rises than falls at the £10 point.

But ultimately if you subscribe to manipulators suppressing price then it's fundamentally good value.

If it's not been suppressed and it's fundamentally low and dropping then can it really go much lower given the prevailing economic doldrums?

Tough one.

I say buy buy buy!

I don't imagine double guessing will yield anything fruitful in the current paridgm of manipulated markets.

Sometimes just using your gut feeling is the best approach, and it's much easier to forgive yourself when you're wrong, if the decision was made from the heart rather than the mind.

In the long run silver is currently cheap.

If the world implodes, it's cheap right now.

If the world explodes in growth and prosperity, it's cheap right now.

If the cycle of gold/silver price continues it's expected dance, it's a good investment right now.

Only in the short or medium term would you lose out, especially if you buy mundane silver with VAT on top.

It's human nature to not be contrarian and follow everyone else like a sheep, but right now is a gift for buying PM for the longer term investment, and also fairly sensible as a tangible store of wealth. Assuming you don't lose it all out of a hole in your pocket, or a boating accident on the lake!