Great Engravers - Petition Crown (Gazette Proclamation)

[NumismaticNI]

Obverse side of both coins just look perfect like all my other coins.

[NumismaticNI]

3 hours ago, Wampum said:

Hi Just a thought, with regards to these images. I really like these in the gold, however would've had to sell a kidney to get them. 

They look like a partial collar, where the planchet has been forced between the die edge and the collar,

which would mean that this would most likely be a mint error.

Two reasons could be that the blank was slightly off centre when it was put into the die or that the pressure and distance was just slightly out when minting.

Both would cause the metal to escape at the weakest point, which would in this case be the joint, and a similar distance on ether side of the joint .

depending on the amount of Gold that was pushed out.

There could also be a weakness to the opposite side edge lettering or at the highest points , although with only a small amount of gold moved there might be no discernible difference.

You could ether return as being poorly struck, or have it sent to NGC as a possible mint error. 

To be honest with the price of these, and the mintage figures, the Mint should never have sent this out. 

                  

Hello Wampum, what would you suggest, best to have a replacement issued as poorly struck or send to NGC for grading and if so your thoughts on the outcome post grading? Attached more close up photos

[margin]

Would this mean each coin is unique as you may have more or less metal squirting over the edge depending on the placement of the band, pressure applied etc.

I do like the idea of each one bring unique although it's easy to be romantic when you haven't spent any money..

 

[NumismaticNI]

It's unique that's for sure. There will never be one like this again 🤣 I still strangely am pleased to have the coin. Just unsure on next steps return to get perfection or would it be better to have a possible error coin? Advice needed 

Edited March 24, 2023 by NumismaticNI

[NumismaticNI]

It's called finning, when the planchet is stuck with too much pressure
(or poss. slightly off centre) and metal gets pressed up the edge of
the die. Poor QC, not really an error. Would most agree with this statement, just trying to gather as much information as possible. 
 

[Wampum]

1 hour ago, NumismaticNI said:

Hello Wampum, what would you suggest, best to have a replacement issued as poorly struck or send to NGC for grading and if so your thoughts on the outcome post grading? Attached more close up photos

To be honest I would probably send it back, It would be different for a coin that cost a lot less, as all error coins do have a market place ,and can get some really good prices ,

and something that cost around £200, would command maybe slightly more as an error,

however an error set, against a pristine set graded at PF70 where the set to start with cost 12K,

personally I would say the PF70,the amount of interested buyers and possibly the return might be better (just my opinion).  

I had used the term partial collar, however you are right that it is finning, on looking at your new photos, it looks as if the Mint has damaged their original error and crumpled the edge,

so not sure how this stands, as now the error has damage.

It is really your own decision on what to do, and depends on how you feel each time you look at the set, as to whether you keep or return.   

              

[westminstrel]

3 hours ago, NumismaticNI said:

Westminstrel, you seem to be a regular. Can you advise or share your knowledge of what has happened please? 

I appreciate your trust in my opinion, but to be honest, I am not knowledgeable about the technicalities of minting.

But, you mentioned “finning”, and yes, this does seem to be what has happened here, with the additional detail of the joint/gap (because of the manufacturing method they’ve used to strike the raised edge lettering).

It seems like you are happy to keep the coin, so I would advise you to send pics to the Royal Mint and see what they have to say about it. Maybe they can provide some details about the manufacturing process that can shed some more light. Perhaps it’s expected, or perhaps it is a manufacturing defect/error. I find this sort of stuff interesting so it’ll be good to get some official word on what has happened here.

Separately, it would be helpful to compare with other coins (silver and gold) to see if a similar issue exists.

There’s a couple sellers on ebay who have listed the 2oz gold, and one of them has taken some nice pics. Maybe ask them to check for similar issues?

My 2oz silver is on its way, but won’t get here for several weeks.

[westminstrel]

@NumismaticNI   I have taken the liberty of borrowing pics from that eBay seller’s listing.

The “joint” can definitely be seen on the rim exactly above the crowned quarter of the arms of England.

And in these two pics, the joint can clearly be seen once again just before the intertwined C-monogram.

 

Unfortunately the raised edge isn’t visible from any of these pics nor the others the seller has. 

[NumismaticNI]

Thanks for your help. I will contact the RM on Monday, personally I'd rather have a replacement, it's eye catching, looks very poor standard. I'm happy in my decision to buy the set. I will provide more information as it comes in from the RM and other buyers, it's still early days I expect this will only be the first of many similar issues with these coins. It will be good to hear and see photos of others as they come in. Replacement for me it is. It's good to learn all these terms, before today I had never heard of finning until something like this happens, very interesting. Thanks for all help. Curious to see others in gold and silver. Appreciate the help provided. 👍🌟

Edited March 25, 2023 by NumismaticNI

[westminstrel]

1 hour ago, NumismaticNI said:

Thanks for your help. I will contact the RM on Monday, personally I'd rather have a replacement, it's eye catching, looks very poor standard. I'm happy in my decision to buy the set. I will provide more information as it comes in from the RM and other buyers, it's still early days I expect this will only be the first of many similar issues with these coins. It will be good to hear and see photos of others as they come in. Replacement for me it is. It's good to learn all these terms, before today I had never heard of finning until something like this happens, very interesting. Thanks for all help. Curious to see others in gold and silver. Appreciate the help provided. 👍🌟

Thank YOU for sharing these gorgeous high-res pics of the gold coins. Not many will have them, so it’s great to get a chance to see them up close like this.

Hope the replacement route works out in your favour. 

[BiigT]

I've just bought the 5oz silver (eta August!) as I think this is a fine looking coin set with a unique feature that will become attractive to me enthusiasts in years to come. I personally can't imagine why anyone might want to grade given that the unique element will be hidden and for that reason I think most won't bother. 

[westminstrel]

40 minutes ago, BiigT said:

I've just bought the 5oz silver (eta August!)

Wait… what?! 😳

[Figgins]

The two ounce arrived today, they look fab. I was lucky enough to get #5, the side weld looks good on both coins. 

 

[BiigT]

2 hours ago, westminstrel said:

Wait… what?! 😳

I know.... I thought the same. I don't mind waiting tbh, but to say it's taking the mick is an understatement 

[Chrisplym]

I spoke with my RM Account Manager yesterday and she seemed to think that the 5oz silver pair will be released towards the end of April.

[Ashes]

My 2oz Silver set arrived today, and I’ve got to say I’m very happy with my purchase. 

Great looking coins and wonderfully presented.

No issues on mine with the joins.

[Wampum]

Just received my two 2oz sets, the presentation is beautifully put together, however seems to be a issue with one of the quartered arms,

I have the special edition spiral lettering and it cost the same for the privilege, I must admit it is central about half way round so that's a bonus. 

The other is the same coin with the finning that has been discussed, however this is exactly opposite the joint,

so it would seem this issue is with the ring not been properly seated. 

The other quarter shows the same with regards to finning however to a lesser degree , however has a small dent.

Both the Effigies are perfect.

I also noticed that the orientation of the lettering, on each is different, with the start of the lettering at different points around  both Effigy and Quartered. 

               

Edited March 25, 2023 by Wampum
spelking

[jcbxly]

What are other works by Thomas Simon? Can't find anything else that would seem suitable for Great Engravers series. There is a Cromwell coin, but it's not that attractive 

[westminstrel]

2 hours ago, jcbxly said:

What are other works by Thomas Simon? Can't find anything else that would seem suitable for Great Engravers series. There is a Cromwell coin, but it's not that attractive 

I doubt they would ever replicate any Cromwell coins. 😛

[Paulo]

Received my 2 ounce silver yesterday.

Agree, I think they are beautiful coins in hand!

Only had time to have a brief look, unfortunately they need to be returned, large section of frosting missing on one of the coins, clearly visible (and I mean clearly)  without a loupe. Hope I can get a good replacement.

Really disappointing!  With the exception of this series, stopped purchasing silver proof coins from the mint last year because of poor quality control.

[sterich]

Received my 2 oz silver set yesterday. As a collector, I can understand the extra premium on this set. The presentation is first class and I will enjoy it in the coming years

I have sent back coins to the mint on numerous occasions ,because of quality issues. fortunately this set is all good

[SilverPlatinum]

3 hours ago, Paulo said:

 large section of frosting missing on one of the coins, clearly visible (and I mean clearly)  without a loupe. Hope I can get a good replacement.

 

Can you post a photo please? This could be mint error and worth a lot of money.

[westminstrel]

On 26/03/2023 at 14:16, jcbxly said:

What are other works by Thomas Simon? Can't find anything else that would seem suitable for Great Engravers series. There is a Cromwell coin, but it's not that attractive 

The Royal Mint Museum has not much to say about Thomas Simon…

https://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/collection/thomas-simon-collection/ 

I suspect they will pick another engraver for the next coin.

Whatever they do, I hope it won’t be a 2-coin issue.

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

1 hour ago, westminstrel said:

The Royal Mint Museum has not much to say about Thomas Simon…

https://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/collection/thomas-simon-collection/ 

I suspect they will pick another engraver for the next coin.

Whatever they do, I hope it won’t be a 2-coin issue.

I suspect you're far from alone hoping the next is just a single coin. It will be interesting to see what they do next time around. You have to imagine they'll be taking lessons from this release.

[SilverJacks]

Amazing set. Very well packaged. Everything about this product is fantastic, except for quality control. It’s littered with scratches…