At what point will a bullion sovereign become too expensive to buy?

[dicker]

3 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

I think for most folks more than a few hundred is something they have to plan for - £500 is a month's disposable income for a lot of people.  I'm a contractor so I'm cash rich when I'm working and have zero when I'm not, so I can (sort of) make hay while the sun shines.  

As sovs start overheating, I'm considering going to doubles or 1oz coins, and putting more into Indonesia, where the regulated price means you can buy 5g or 10g bars for around 5% over spot.  At the moment you can still get sovs for somewhat reasonable prices here and there, but I don't know how long that will last for.  Time will tell if we're seeing a panic buying episode triggered by the announcement of the new lower CGT threshold - I think the most likely outcome is that the market will cool down in due course.  RM aren't going to be shy about minting Brits to backfill demand for gold if they perceive there's a bob in it.

I have not heard the Indonesia angle before…

[Roy]

How much is milk now?

I paid £3.22 a gallon which I thought reasonable. 

[Silverlocks]

27 minutes ago, dicker said:

I have not heard the Indonesia angle before…

My other half comes from Indonesia.

Because Islam, stacking fractional gold is a widely practiced method of saving there - Interest bearing savings accounts are considered usury and therefor haram (not the done thing) in Islamic circles and stacking gold is the quran's prescribed method of saving.

Because this functions as a proxy for banking the market is regulated with government mandated buy and sell prices - the spread for 1g bars is about 10% and the spread for 5-10g bars is about 5%; I think the prices are updated daily.  A lot of jewellers run franchises for this, so most shopping malls or other similar places will have somewhere you can buy or sell.  There's also a big gold market next to Cikini train station in Jakarta.

There's a large state-owned mining/refining outfit called P.T. Aneka Tambang that (amongst other things) produces retail bullion products for this market, basically assay carded or cast gold bars much as you'd see from an outfit like PAMP or Valcambi.   They're also on the LBMA good delivery list if you're in the market for a 400oz bar.  They have a web site you can buy the gold off, but they don't deliver outside Indonesia and you need an Indonesian ID card number to buy from the site. 

The biggest obstacle to buying gold from this system is that you actually have to show up to Indonesia in order to do it.  Fortunately I have family there, so this is a practical option.

https://www.logammulia.com/index.php/en/purchase/gold

This is their web site, but you need an Indonesian national identity number and a delivery address in Indonesia to buy off it.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Silverlocks

[Bigmarc]

37 minutes ago, flyingveepixie said:

bought 10 x 25kg bags of smokeless pellets from the coalman yesterday.   £15/bag. Total cost £150.  We also ordered some of the same stuff online from a different supplier when we couldn't get hold of the coalman last week - cost of that was £20/bag.   18 months ago the same amount cost me £85. I still have the receipt. 

I paid £332 for a sovereign 18 months ago. So a sovereign should be selling at about £590. (In fairness it was bbp and still have the receipt give or take a day or two). 

 

[SidS]

8 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

I paid £332 for a sovereign 18 months ago. So a sovereign should be selling at about £590. (In fairness it was bbp and still have the receipt give or take a day or two). 

 

I've seen shields for sale in the £500-£650 price range.

[refero]

22 hours ago, Petra said:

Try the coin cabinet, they currently have a 45 sovereign set on offer for £39,500!

roughly 45.000 Euros, which looks just crazy, at first glance. 1.000 Euros per coin!!!!!

I then made an excel putting coin by coin, price by price (entering what i considered a current price for a slabbed 70 proof coin of that year); quite surprisingly my grand total got to 42.800 euros.

my conclusion is that it is indeed a ***** amount of money, but i wouldnt be surprised if that collection would be bought soon and fetching maybe 50.000 euros or more in a near future.

[Petra]

18 minutes ago, refero said:

roughly 45.000 Euros, which looks just crazy, at first glance. 1.000 Euros per coin!!!!!

I then made an excel putting coin by coin, price by price (entering what i considered a current price for a slabbed 70 proof coin of that year); quite surprisingly my grand total got to 42.800 euros.

my conclusion is that it is indeed a ***** amount of money, but i wouldnt be surprised if that collection would be bought soon and fetching maybe 50.000 euros or more in a near future.

Well there are genuinely some rarer coins in there that individually may fetch more🧐🤔

[Paul]

22 hours ago, Petra said:

Try the coin cabinet, they currently have a 45 sovereign set on offer for £39,500! 🤔🧐🧐

I got the same email - expensive for the set when you work out the market value of each 

Look nice though 

[MonkeysUncle]

As Dave suggested at the very start of this thread I would be joining him with a JCB to fill up a truck at 300 a Sov.

I still look at the markets and in disbelief at the major stock market indices. Nothing at all in my opinion justifies where the majority of things are. I include metals in this but don't see gold as massively OTT compared with say the Dow. I said to my financial adviser about 18 months ago I would go all in on a Dow tracker at 20,000 and I still see the real value in low 20's.

As for Sovs I was dawdling as usual over buying in December. The cash sat for that has gone this week into a very speculative oil junior stock: it will be bankrupt or make me a significant multiple before Spring is sprung. If hopefully the latter it's going into Sovs whatever the cost at the time. I've promised myself this! And maybe a shiny new watch... 

[GoldDiggerDave]

On 26/01/2023 at 09:30, Goldfever20 said:

A mental block for me would be £1000 for a bullion sovereign,  and I would back my truck up at £330.

Yes I do have the same mental block for proof coins  £1,800 for a 1oz gold proof is now £2,800 ish so I've refined what I'm buying I don't scatter gun as much now with the commemorative stuff (but theres still some nice ones wit milage in them if you chose right)  

£1000 for a sovereign sounds mental......But if you said to someone they will be £400 each or there about to someone in the  the 90's when they were less than £100 each they would laugh at you......  the £400 ish could 4x in the next 30 years easy.  

[Dankanugget]

Soon enough a Dos Pesos will be £200. The new quarter sov.

[pricha]

I remember many many many years ago having a similar discussion in the pub with a friend about what we'd do when a pint reaches the £1 mark 😆 

[Roy]

I remember saying that I would give up driving if petrol went over £1.

A gallon.

[Foster88]

5 hours ago, Roy said:

I remember saying that I would give up driving if petrol went over £1.

A gallon.

You must have spent a fortune on taxis and busses. 😆

I was having a conversation with a friend in US a few months ago who couldn’t believe the price of petrol in UK when I told him. He was even more shocked when I said it was per litre and not per gallon.

Everything is going up and I can’t see anything coming down any time in the near future.

[Roy]

It wasn't that long ago...'78 or '79?

I'd only been driving for a year or so and £1 a gallon was the end of (my) world!

Yes, it seems ridiculously cheap now.

[SidS]

In the 1970s there was a need (not much mind) for a 1/2p coin. I'd argue that most coins below 20p are pretty useless now - certainly the 1p-5p range, few people want them.

[Petra]

30 minutes ago, SidS said:

In the 1970s there was a need (not much mind) for a 1/2p coin. I'd argue that most coins below 20p are pretty useless now - certainly the 1p-5p range, few people want them.

I take it you’ll be saying next that you don’t use cash?

[GoldDiggerDave]

39 minutes ago, SidS said:

In the 1970s there was a need (not much mind) for a 1/2p coin. I'd argue that most coins below 20p are pretty useless now - certainly the 1p-5p range, few people want them.

Without a doubt out small currency coins have passed “seniorage”. The point even with the cheap base metal they are made from cost more to produce and put into circulation than the face value.   I bet anyone it uses more than 1p worth of energy to smelt, mint, package, and deliver a penny. 
 

 

[Bigmarc]

58 minutes ago, SidS said:

In the 1970s there was a need (not much mind) for a 1/2p coin. I'd argue that most coins below 20p are pretty useless now - certainly the 1p-5p range, few people want them.

I needed small coins for the vending machines at work. Use to have to get cash out then buy something small so I can get the change. Now all the vending machines are cashless (hundreds of them). Even parking meters are offen broken and have to phone it in or use the app. 

Saying that it doesn't stop me spending a tenna trying to win a load of 2p's on holiday. 

[SidS]

3 hours ago, Petra said:

I take it you’ll be saying next that you don’t use cash?

I do use cash, but I don't bother with the coppers, they go in charity boxes, don't want them in my pockets. I don't even pick them up off the streets when I see them.

[ozzie456]

The last few posts motivated me to do something I've been meaning to do for years. It turns out that I'm £24.35 (and 23 cents) richer than I thought I was!

[ZRPMs]

2 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

I needed small coins for the vending machines at work. Use to have to get cash out then buy something small so I can get the change. Now all the vending machines are cashless (hundreds of them). Even parking meters are offen broken and have to phone it in or use the app. 

Saying that it doesn't stop me spending a tenna trying to win a load of 2p's on holiday. 

January not quite over yet and so far I've walked out of 2 shops and taken my trade else where and made one cashier take cash, Having refused to pay with a card.

The first shop was the local co-op. Not that busy a morning I grabbed a jug of milk, got to the till. only the new self-service tills operating. On my way back to the chiller to replace the milk The only member of staff asked if I was ok. Perfectly, I said. I'm just putting this milk back. With a puzzled look she asked why. I don't use the self-service tills. Oh she said, they are very easy to use. do you need me to show you. No thanks, I'll get it from the Spar across the road. Still with a puzzled look she asked me why. So I said. Two weeks ago when these were being fitted. Every one was told they were to help out at peak times. Today, your here on your own. Unable to man the tills. Its quite early and nowhere near a peak time. So there are reducing hours now for the staff here. Not only that but dear Mrs Jones that lives on her own can't have a chat now whilst being served. It may have been the only person she got to speak to today. Also I prefer to use cash. The Spar are quite happy to keep two members of staff on at all times and they don't continue to thrust the card machine in my face. I think I'll support them from now on.

Use cash at every opportunity you can and expect to be served. Use it or loose it.

[SidS]

12 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

January not quite over yet and so far I've walked out of 2 shops and taken my trade else where and made one cashier take cash, Having refused to pay with a card.

The first shop was the local co-op. Not that busy a morning I grabbed a jug of milk, got to the till. only the new self-service tills operating. On my way back to the chiller to replace the milk The only member of staff asked if I was ok. Perfectly, I said. I'm just putting this milk back. With a puzzled look she asked why. I don't use the self-service tills. Oh she said, they are very easy to use. do you need me to show you. No thanks, I'll get it from the Spar across the road. Still with a puzzled look she asked me why. So I said. Two weeks ago when these were being fitted. Every one was told they were to help out at peak times. Today, your here on your own. Unable to man the tills. Its quite early and nowhere near a peak time. So there are reducing hours now for the staff here. Not only that but dear Mrs Jones that lives on her own can't have a chat now whilst being served. It may have been the only person she got to speak to today. Also I prefer to use cash. The Spar are quite happy to keep two members of staff on at all times and they don't continue to thrust the card machine in my face. I think I'll support them from now on.

Use cash at every opportunity you can and expect to be served. Use it or loose it.

I won't use self service checkouts either, last time I did I make a right fuss and insisted I needed help. In the end they had to do it for me! 😁

I'm sure I could have worked it out, if I'd really wanted to. But as you say, if we accept them, then it's putting people out of work.

[Skyfiller]

Hope they don’t stop 2p’s, collected quite a few over the years 😂

 

[ZRPMs]

Just off to get a sovereign. I'm still buying at £400