Memorial Sov: Is a Proof half or a bullion full sov a better long term investment?

[KindCollector]

Saved up enough to get either a bullion memorial sovereign when they are released at the end of this month or a proof half from chards. I really like the design and wouldn’t plan on selling for at least 15-20 years as I see it performing very well in the future. It would also help to diversify my stack into collectables too. If I am making no sense please tell me since I wouldn’t want to invest in an item that I couldn’t move on in the future if I decided to cash in.
My worry is that there will be scratches or defects on the proof as the Royal Mint aren’t too good when it comes to doing things right the first time. I missed out on proof platinum jubilee coins at the time so I was wondering what everyone else here thought of this? Also I would expect that Chards are careful enough to inspect their proofs before selling to customers but I have never bought one so would know exactly what to look for in terms of damage.

Thanks for reading, leave a comment if you can help or have any suggestions for me!

Edited January 17, 2023 by KindCollector

[Leonmarsh]

Proof 

Bullion will always be bullion 

[James32]

51 minutes ago, KindCollector said:

Saved up enough to get either a bullion memorial sovereign when they are released at the end of this month or a proof half from chards. I really like the design and wouldn’t plan on selling for at least 15-20 years as I see it performing very well in the future. It would also help to diversify my stack into collectables too. If I am making no sense please tell me since I wouldn’t want to invest in an item that I couldn’t move on in the future if I decided to cash in.
My worry is that there will be scratches or defects on the proof as the Royal Mint aren’t too good when it comes to doing things right the first time. I missed out on proof platinum jubilee coins at the time so I was wondering what everyone else here thought of this? Also I would expect that Chards are careful enough to inspect their proofs before selling to customers but I have never bought one so would know exactly what to look for in terms of damage.

Thanks for reading, leave a comment if you can help or have any suggestions for me!

I think both coins will do very well in 20 years regardless of proof or bullion. 

There's approx £160 of price difference out the gate, so only you can work out which suits you better. Bullion for pure investment, or proof for investment but also a speculative side. Are you a stacker or collector?

I do think chards will check before sending out tbh. But the half sovereign is so intricate that a small flaw may be unfortunately missed. You can just use a loupe or magnifying glass to check yourself, and I'm sure they will look after you if a problem appears. 

If I was in your position and had saved up for one or the other, I'd probably opt for bullion and buy another 1/10th gold coin with the change. More gold and in 20 years should theoretically mean more profits. But more importantly you have closer to spot price gold in your possession incase you need an emergency sale quickly. A proof coin can go in and out of favour over the years (whilst I do think these will always be sought after ) but the collector's market can be strange at the best of times. 

 

[Mtaybar]

James pretty much covered everything to be honest. Bullion is far less hassle and bullet proof to be honest. Who knows what yhe future holds but bullion closer to spot is always a safer bet. These particular proofs however I think will be sought after for years to come. 

[KindCollector]

I have already got a good base stack, I am looking to add some collectables that would have a premium that would allow for a higher profit margin when I sell in the future. I have a small gold stack and a decent silver stack for the time being too.

[Mtaybar]

3 minutes ago, KindCollector said:

I have already got a good base stack, I am looking to add some collectables that would have a premium that would allow for a higher profit margin when I sell in the future. I have a small gold stack and a decent silver stack for the time being too.

Definitely no harm in diversifying into some proofs to help make for a more interesting stack. If you feel you have a decent base and you think adding a proof will help then in my humble opinion..... you can't go wrong with these at all. It's real history as it's happening. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Mtaybar

[James32]

4 minutes ago, KindCollector said:

I have already got a good base stack, I am looking to add some collectables that would have a premium that would allow for a higher profit margin when I sell in the future. I have a small gold stack and a decent silver stack for the time being too.

AHH that changes my opinion,then go for the proof.. you will "finger's crossed" get a beautifully finished proof coin in a nice box with COA for the extra money.. in 20 years the difference will have been swallowed whole by the jump in spot price and all should be a distant memory. Not being morbid,, but old Charlie is unlikely to have the long run his mother had so your ( first of a new monarch) coin is now worth a very decent return 🙂

[Wileyfox]

Interesting.. I'm in a similar position, thinking whether to get x2 bullion sovs or x1 proof sov in this design. I'm favouring the bullion for myself as I can sell one and hold onto the other.

However, I did get the proof 2022 jubilee sovereign last year and I'm glad I did - it was my first proof gold coin and it seems to have done well in terms of value added. It will always be the last QEII proof sov.

4 minutes ago, KindCollector said:

I have already got a good base stack, I am looking to add some collectables that would have a premium that would allow for a higher profit margin when I sell in the future. I have a small gold stack and a decent silver stack for the time being too.

As you're saying this, I would go with the proof half. It will always be the first proof KCIII half sovereign. It's the right denomination in my view, in 15-20 years not many people will be able to afford a proof full sovereign.

[StackemHigh]

Proof 100%. The problem is they got to be perfect.

[Orpster]

I would go for the proof, of all the memorials it has the lowest mintages
There are also a number of dealers selling them at RRP or even a few quid lower (Britannia Coins is one I think)
Dealers will QC the coin a lot better than Royal Mint as well, I bought one via CoTR who I think also still have a little stock

[KindCollector]

3 hours ago, Orpster said:

I would go for the proof, of all the memorials it has the lowest mintages
There are also a number of dealers selling them at RRP or even a few quid lower (Britannia Coins is one I think)
Dealers will QC the coin a lot better than Royal Mint as well, I bought one via CoTR who I think also still have a little stock

Thanks! I was wondering how you would sell in the future as I mentioned holding for the mid to long term (at least 10-20 years) as TSF May no longer be around, auction houses take a huge slice of profits in marketing and auction fees and dealers can be quite predatory with coins (as I saw someone get offered £4000 for a three graces coin that the same company (a big dealer) was selling for £12000)?

[Leonmarsh]

Just now, KindCollector said:

Thanks! I was wondering how you would sell in the future as I mentioned holding for the mid to long term (at least 10-20 years) as TSF May no longer be around, auction houses take a huge slice of profits in marketing and auction fees and dealers can be quite predatory with coins (as I saw someone get offered £4000 for a three graces coin that the same company (a big dealer) was selling for £12000)?

I have the same issue with sov rarities, was offered 650 for a ms62 quarter sov 1718 said it was market valuee sold for a grand in the end private 

They have one on their site now for 1500

Got to make money but draw the line at Greed

[KindCollector]

33 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

I have the same issue with sov rarities, was offered 650 for a ms62 quarter sov 1718 said it was market valuee sold for a grand in the end private 

They have one on their site now for 1500

Got to make money but draw the line at Greed

Agree with you there. I know dealers need to make a profit but some are quite predatory when it comes to people who are desperate to liquidate some of their stack for emergency cash or a relative who inherits them and gets ripped off.

[Petra]

After enquiring in a local pawnshop about some gold bars and sovereigns they had for sale, I asked how much they would give when buying sovereigns and it was well below £300 for a full sovereign and that was quite late last year🤔😮

[LawrenceChard]

22 hours ago, KindCollector said:

Saved up enough to get either a bullion memorial sovereign when they are released at the end of this month or a proof half from chards. I really like the design and wouldn’t plan on selling for at least 15-20 years as I see it performing very well in the future. It would also help to diversify my stack into collectables too. If I am making no sense please tell me since I wouldn’t want to invest in an item that I couldn’t move on in the future if I decided to cash in.
My worry is that there will be scratches or defects on the proof as the Royal Mint aren’t too good when it comes to doing things right the first time. I missed out on proof platinum jubilee coins at the time so I was wondering what everyone else here thought of this? Also I would expect that Chards are careful enough to inspect their proofs before selling to customers but I have never bought one so would know exactly what to look for in terms of damage.

Thanks for reading, leave a comment if you can help or have any suggestions for me!

Although this may talk us (Chards) our of a proof half sovereign sale, I would go for the (full) sovereign rather than a half.

We have some advice here:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/advice-guide-for-uk-bullion-investors/1041

Of course, you could also get both!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, Petra said:

After enquiring in a local pawnshop about some gold bars and sovereigns they had for sale, I asked how much they would give when buying sovereigns and it was well below £300 for a full sovereign and that was quite late last year🤔😮

Sounds more like a pornshop than a pawnshop, but most pawnshops and high street jewellers work on high profit margins.

Although many TSF members recommend dealing via TSF, which is a good resource, most or at least many coin and bullion dealers work on quite competitive buy and sell prices.

😎

Edited January 18, 2023 by LawrenceChard

[dicker]

Skip them and get high grade Gillicks.  

[GoldDiggerDave]

2017 proof sovereign 2017 bullion sovereign?      The 2017 bullion has about doubled in price the 2017 proof I'd say a bit more. Historically special year proof sovereigns normally do well over a period of time.   

The memorial sovereign is a thing of beauty and is a contender for the nicest looking special year sovereign, the first sovereign of a new monarch in most of our lifetimes so likely  to be a good option to pass on to your children as a  inherence.  

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by GoldDiggerDave

[Petra]

28 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Sounds more like a pornshop than a pawnshop, but most pawnshops and high street jewellers work on high profit margins.

Although many TSF members recommend dealing via TSF, which is a good resource, most or at least many coin and bullion dealers work on quite competitive buy abd sell prices.

😎

I suppose the excuse is that like a lot of retail, the stuff can sit for sale for a long time so needs a decent margin? Personally I think that they would do better if they bought at a decent price, sold at a decent price and just had a better turnover. Everyone wins?

[272]

On 18/01/2023 at 12:04, Orpster said:

I would go for the proof, of all the memorials it has the lowest mintages
There are also a number of dealers selling them at RRP or even a few quid lower (Britannia Coins is one I think)
Dealers will QC the coin a lot better than Royal Mint as well, I bought one via CoTR who I think also still have a little stock

I wouldn't assume all retailers are great - just sent a memorial half sovereign back to BBP today which had a very visible mark on the obverse that a twenty second check with the naked eye would have spotted. I've also had to return faulty Tudor beast coins from the theKoinclub who have then only given me a refund as  they lacked the stock to exchange which is frustrating. Its why I tend to buy from RM if I can as you can at least insist on an exchange if its a key release (although it becomes wearing after you've sent the same coins back for the 14th time)!

Edited January 22, 2023 by 272

[Orpster]

56 minutes ago, 272 said:

I wouldn't assume all retailers are great - just sent a memorial half sovereign back to BBP today which had a very visible mark on the obverse that a twenty second check with the naked eye would have spotted. I've also had to return faulty Tudor beast coins from the theKoinclub who have then only given me a refund as  they lacked the stock to exchange which is frustrating. its why I tend to buy from RM if I can as you can at least insist on an exchange if its key release (although it becomes wearing after you've sent the same coins back for the 14th time)!

You have listed the top two in the list of worst dealers there so I should probably have said some dealers, my bad
BBP customer service can be good but they are overly expensive and have a habit of sending out poor quality goods, which I have picked up from reading posts on this forum.  theKoinclub is not one I have ever ordered from but similarly have a terrible reputation.  For proofs I would only ever deal with Chards, Atkinsons, CoTR and possibly Britannia Coins.  I would also consider Gerrard's & ATS but never having ordered anything other than bullion from them I cannot comment on their QC process.  Like you I only ever ordered from RM for proofs and high value items but stopped ordering from them completely when I had to send back 4 coins in a row, all silver from either the Queens Beast or Monarchs series'.  I spoke to Chards, CoTR and Atkinsons to ask how they check their new release proofs and all have a strict QC process and all will return them to RM for replacement if they are not up to standard.  Since then I have only ever ordered from those three and without ever receiving a single bad coin 

[272]

On 21/01/2023 at 13:23, Orpster said:

You have listed the top two in the list of worst dealers there so I should probably have said some dealers, my bad
BBP customer service can be good but they are overly expensive and have a habit of sending out poor quality goods, which I have picked up from reading posts on this forum.  theKoinclub is not one I have ever ordered from but similarly have a terrible reputation.  For proofs I would only ever deal with Chards, Atkinsons, CoTR and possibly Britannia Coins.  I would also consider Gerrard's & ATS but never having ordered anything other than bullion from them I cannot comment on their QC process.  Like you I only ever ordered from RM for proofs and high value items but stopped ordering from them completely when I had to send back 4 coins in a row, all silver from either the Queens Beast or Monarchs series'.  I spoke to Chards, CoTR and Atkinsons to ask how they check their new release proofs and all have a strict QC process and all will return them to RM for replacement if they are not up to standard.  Since then I have only ever ordered from those three and without ever receiving a single bad coin 

Yep but I had bonus silver to claim 😁!  Sent it back got another very quickly to be fair but also damage on the obverse- so sent that back too for a refund. I've bought one from Chards instead. Will stick to my usual purchases of Bullion from BBP when its advantageous to do so.