Auction House sovereign prices

[wilky1]

I have been watching a lot of auctions lately where the prices of quite poor quality sovereigns have sold for £320-£360 plus fees of upto 36% plus postage WHY...... am I missing something?

5 or 6 years ago I used to buy a lot from the auction houses,  Then I had to spend money on the wife and house now I have come back to buying again and its just not worth bidding most times.  1oz silver Brit's going for £26-£28 plus fee's madness

So what am I missing here?

Wilky

[Tn21]

Well things have definitely moved on since 5 - 6 years ago. 

Spot has increased and so has demand for the metals in bullion format 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Tn21

[wilky1]

1 minute ago, Tn21 said:

Well things have definitely moved on side 5 - 6 years ago. 

 

That may be so but you still need to watch the percentages and a bullion sovereign with fee's at £435 is crazy plus postage...lol

[Tn21]

Just now, wilky1 said:

That may be so but you still need to watch the percentages and a bullion sovereign with fee's at £435 is crazy plus postage...lol

Agreed 100%

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, wilky1 said:

I have been watching a lot of auctions lately where the prices of quite poor quality sovereigns have sold for £320-£360 plus fees of upto 36% plus postage WHY...... am I missing something?

5 or 6 years ago I used to buy a lot from the auction houses,  Then I had to spend money on the wife and house now I have come back to buying again and its just not worth bidding most times.  1oz silver Brit's going for £26-£28 plus fee's madness

So what am I missing here?

Wilky

Albert Einstein — 'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'

It's not new.

Way back when @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer was still called R&L Coins, and still in Dale Street Blackpool, I / we used to sell gold sovereigns at £4 each, with quantity breaks down to as little as £3.50 each.

We also used to sell scarcer dates and better grade ones at £5 each.

We used to have few local collectors who would call in regularly to see what we had to extend and complete their date ranges. Sometimes they would haggle, or try to, if we had more than just one or two "new" coins for them.

One day, someone  told me there were some sovereigns in a forthcoming local general auction sale. I went along for a look. They were all modest grade, i.e. nothing special. Two of our regular customers were there, and each bought a number of very ordinary sovereigns, and astounded me by happily paying around £6 to £7 each.

The next time they called in, I mentioned this to them, and they both looked in their notebooks, before telling me "Oh they were dates you coudn't get for us", or words to that effect. They didn't seem to realise or care that we would have got them almost every date eventually, and at just £5 each, even when I pointed it out to them.

I don't think they ever tried to haggle again.

I learnt a few things that day, but I still only asked them £5 for our "better" sovereigns.

😎

[dicker]

2 hours ago, wilky1 said:

I have been watching a lot of auctions lately where the prices of quite poor quality sovereigns have sold for £320-£360 plus fees of upto 36% plus postage WHY...... am I missing something?

5 or 6 years ago I used to buy a lot from the auction houses,  Then I had to spend money on the wife and house now I have come back to buying again and its just not worth bidding most times.  1oz silver Brit's going for £26-£28 plus fee's madness

So what am I missing here?

Wilky

I suspect a few things at play:

- Sometimes people want a date, or realise (way more rarely) that the coin is unusual in some respect. Yes auction houses don’t always do all the research on a coin, and get it wrong 

- Some people like buying from auction - safety blanket

- Some people just don’t know better and get caught up in the moment

- More people are buying Sovs in my opinion, and supply is tighter than a few years ago.  I registered on HGM for an update on when they get Gillicks in, that was 10 months ago - I got an email saying they had stock last week…

There will be other reasons, but that’s my best guess.  

[harrygill111]

I saw a standard QB 2oz lion go for £180 on amazon recently, while ebay had listings for about £70. I guess the buyer was just nuts, rich, time poor or doing some washing.

Sold listings on eBay often blow my mind! 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204172914078?hash=item2f89a76d9e:g:ZPoAAOSwF3JjQrfu&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoN62DfpMtNIDM3qyMIhZ6IZwOFkWL6mrZJRyJiCdRIdTumX%2FEwNU3UuCYJv%2B5Cz0rGfirb0scebS2NabQtU1TLEHouNGzQ9fyC2PJhPUAK4Q1QF6mV%2Fb1D3qoh6IYsP6iOIJ7ZbY101V22s3ALSNojvwKZj6DbP1dRN42eGPKlDWt4Jb9P4bIwqCHcdlOLKpOsGJZqcnPbXJcdLUtxz4%2B6g%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6j4rsy3YQ

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by harrygill111

[LawrenceChard]

18 minutes ago, dicker said:

I suspect a few things at play:

- Sometimes people want a date, or realise (way more rarely) that the coin is unusual in some respect. Yes auction houses don’t always do all the research on a coin, and get it wrong 

- Some people like buying from auction - safety blanket

- Some people just don’t know better and get caught up in the moment

- More people are buying Sovs in my opinion, and supply is tighter than a few years ago.  I registered on HGM for an update on when they get Gillicks in, that was 10 months ago - I got an email saying they had stock last week…

There will be other reasons, but that’s my best guess.  

" Sometimes people want a date"

Or you being sexist again?

"Some people like buying from auction - safety blanket"

The number of auction houses, general and specialist, listing obvious fakes recently is appalling, so it's an illusory safety blanket.

There are probably an infinite number of reasons, all connected to stupidity.

😎

[FriedrichVonHayek]

I used to buy most of my Sovereigns at auction in the mid 2000's and you could buy them for £10- £15 cheaper than a bullion dealer, there was also not much difference in the price of Proof Sovereigns compared to bullion ones.

I don't bother now as they are invariably bid up to stupid prices by some silly old fool who doesn't realise he can buy the same coins far cheaper on the Internet.

[harrygill111]

3 hours ago, wilky1 said:

That may be so but you still need to watch the percentages and a bullion sovereign with fee's at £435 is crazy plus postage...lol

I think there is some misguided price perception, particularly among newbies - so many online dealers with pricing ranging from spot plus a few % to Bullion by post style bargains, where you're not even buying a date. That ones a bargain right now - 1% off! 

Edited January 16, 2023 by harrygill111

[Simonz]

Mea Culpa! Purchased a 1957 Sovereign from Coin Cabinet auction pre xmas for £430! +6% buyers premium £455.80.

Chards have one in stock for £569.34, Britannia coin co £525. I wanted the date, thought I did ok?

Keen to get a 1937 G6 too which is going to be £4k+!

Got lucky with some dates under spot, if you want specific coins you have to pay. If your into bullion then it's not too difficult to find good deals?

[ShineyMagpie]

I do think people get caught up in the moment, don't do the maths and take into consideration the buyers fee's. 

[harrygill111]

The bidding increments at some auctions can be a little on the large side to, but not the case on ebay! Maybe it's all the necter points! People do crazy things for air miles! 

Edited January 16, 2023 by harrygill111

[GoldDiggerDave]

I can see gold physical gold carrying the same  premiums as silver at some point. 

[modofantasma]

44 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

I can see gold physical gold carrying the same  premiums as silver at some point. 

Because of gold premiums increasing or silver premiums decreasing when everyone is trying to get rid of it? 😏

[GoldDiggerDave]

4 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

Because of gold premiums increasing or silver premiums decreasing when everyone is trying to get rid of it? 😏

Just the demand for physical gold and refiners, distributors must all be having higher operating costs with energy prices etc.  sooner or later the cost will have to be passed down the line just like farmers growing crops with higher fertiliser and diesel  costs. 
 

 

[Jvc2858]

@LawrenceChard could you put my name on the waiting list for when those £5 sovereign comes back in stock, thank you.🤑

[LawrenceChard]

21 hours ago, Simonz said:

Mea Culpa! Purchased a 1957 Sovereign from Coin Cabinet auction pre xmas for £430! +6% buyers premium £455.80.

Chards have one in stock for £569.34, Britannia coin co £525. I wanted the date, thought I did ok?

Keen to get a 1937 G6 too which is going to be £4k+!

Got lucky with some dates under spot, if you want specific coins you have to pay. If your into bullion then it's not too difficult to find good deals?

It doesn't seem too long ago since we (Chards) had the 4 coin 1937 gold proof sets for sale at £3,500 each. Loads of people called up interested, but we didn't sell any of them for about 2 or 3 years. We bought a few more in, and I think we had 4 in stock at one time, We ended up selling 3 of the sets off to a fellow dealer at a very slight discount, after which everyone wanted to buy one, and the market prices shot up. I don't even know how much they are trading at now.

😎

Edited January 17, 2023 by LawrenceChard

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Jvc2858 said:

@LawrenceChard could you put my name on the waiting list for when those £5 sovereign comes back in stock, thank you.🤑

This puzzled me for a few moments.

At first I thought you were referring to quintuple sovereigns; I think the Royal Mint now call those "£5 sovereigns".

I had to read back through the thread to realise you meant a sovereign for £5.

If you had used the "Quote" button, (and made it idiot-proof) I would have understood instantly.

It was probably me being a little dumb, but my mind has swiched between about 20+ different topics in the past half hour, and I have only had one coffee.

Time to take a short break...

😎

[Leonmarsh]

Think it's just auction fever 

You see it in here there was a coin last week or so on here sat at 385 posted for 10 days or so 

Auction every creamed their pants and it sold at 380 plus post 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Leonmarsh

[Simonz]

On 18/01/2023 at 00:23, LawrenceChard said:

It doesn't seem too long ago since we (Chards) had the 4 coin 1937 gold proof sets for sale at £3,500 each. Loads of people called up interested, but we didn't sell any of them for about 2 or 3 years. We bought a few more in, and I think we had 4 in stock at one time, We ended up selling 3 of the sets off to a fellow dealer at a very slight discount, after which everyone wanted to buy one, and the market prices shot up. I don't even know how much they are trading at now.

😎

Set my alarm wrong and missed the Heritage auction today! Saved some $ though!

[pricha]

On 16/01/2023 at 22:06, LawrenceChard said:

Albert Einstein — 'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'

It's not new.

Way back when @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer was still called R&L Coins, and still in Dale Street Blackpool, I / we used to sell gold sovereigns at £4 each, with quantity breaks down to as little as £3.50 each.

We also used to sell scarcer dates and better grade ones at £5 each.

We used to have few local collectors who would call in regularly to see what we had to extend and complete their date ranges. Sometimes they would haggle, or try to, if we had more than just one or two "new" coins for them.

One day, someone  told me there were some sovereigns in a forthcoming local general auction sale. I went along for a look. They were all modest grade, i.e. nothing special. Two of our regular customers were there, and each bought a number of very ordinary sovereigns, and astounded me by happily paying around £6 to £7 each.

The next time they called in, I mentioned this to them, and they both looked in their notebooks, before telling me "Oh they were dates you coudn't get for us", or words to that effect. They didn't seem to realise or care that we would have got them almost every date eventually, and at just £5 each, even when I pointed it out to them.

I don't think they ever tried to haggle again.

I learnt a few things that day, but I still only asked them £5 for our "better" sovereigns.

😎

As a matter of interest.  What year approx were you selling sovereigns for £4 ? And how did this compare with an average weekly wage at that time. 🤔 

[LawrenceChard]

4 minutes ago, pricha said:

As a matter of interest.  What year approx were you selling sovereigns for £4 ? And how did this compare with an average weekly wage at that time. 🤔 

About 1964/5.

There is an article about our old advert somewhere.

There is a brief reference here:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/exchange-control-act/785

There will be many sources online which will provide  average weekly wage and similar info.

😎

[pricha]

19 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

About 1964/5.

There is an article about our old advert somewhere.

There is a brief reference here:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/exchange-control-act/785

There will be many sources online which will provide  average weekly wage and similar info.

😎

A quick glance. 1964 average wage about £17 and average house £2600. 

[MrStacker]

Occasionally a good gold sovereign coin for example can go under the radar on auction sites HOWEVER when they slap the sales fee, postage and other “extras” it becomes more expensive than most dealers.

Regardless of coin condition - they are extortionate prices. I stay away from auctions in general. Don’t like them. Maybe a decade a go it would be more feasible as a buyer not anymore IMO.