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Your opinions on the value of this coin?


Alex944

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Hello Forum,

whilst on Holidays I came across a coin I frankly know nothing about, and decide to take a chance on it since I tend to educate myself through a hit-and-miss model. Last time I asked for your opinions, it turned out it was a miss(from me!), so today I am trying it again

what we have here is a 1834 1 Ruble Alexander Column in a decent condition. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces16531.html
 

Though I haven’t been able to do full checks on its legitimacy (my tools are at home) I do think it is genuine. The place where I got this had multiple other coins that I am familiar with and that (looked) perfectly genuine so I’ll take the benefit of the doubt here.

if we assume that it’s indeed genuine, what would you think this should be valued at? From my quick checks, it’s quite rare (mintage of 15K and numista rarity index of 90), but some of the price indications put this in price ranges between 100-300€, which probably is too high.

i tried to take pictures in different lights but am limited with my cellphone for quality.

i appreciate all of your inputs. For transparancy, I ended up paying 40€ For this coin.

thank you all for taking the time

 

 

BCD7714B-421A-4E48-9CBC-9B20942D5F9D.jpeg

71D7E3D3-DF71-4A81-94EF-3CE7D121DE17.jpeg

990A8DBA-FF7D-4982-A8B7-D008007814A6.jpeg

07EF6311-217F-49DA-9167-F94AF7D01482.jpeg

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If genuine, this would be a big hit. But alas, I'd have some doubts about its authenticity. Photos are not great but I don't like some details, e.g. the statue on the top of the column - is there a gap? The fence - where are the bird decorations? Where's the signature on the obverse?

I am looking at this on my phone screen only so better check is advisable but I would be cautious. You can find several silver plated copies of this coin which tend to have similar issues on aliexpress.

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Thanks a lot! I’ll do a closer inspection tonight but based on your comments, I think you may be right. Being generous, the statue on the column may be some fading/wearing but I do fully agree with the look of the fence and the lack of the signature on the neck on the obverse. 
 

I will have a chance to go back to the same place tomorrow, so I may just check with the shopkeeper. I appreciate your insights!

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Hi! It looks like a cast copy to me, there appear to be some 'missing' bits that don't correspond to normal wear; the nape of the neck where it meets the hairline, the ear down to the lobe, the notchy looking throat and as mentioned above the detail on the column...It may be worth bringing this up with the shopkeep and seeing if they will refund/exchange for something else.

Have you done any testing for size/weight etc?

 

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2 hours ago, Alex944 said:

Your opinions on the value of this coin?

Hello Forum,

whilst on Holidays I came across a coin I frankly know nothing about, and decide to take a chance on it since I tend to educate myself through a hit-and-miss model. Last time I asked for your opinions, it turned out it was a miss(from me!), so today I am trying it again

what we have here is a 1834 1 Ruble Alexander Column in a decent condition. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces16531.html
Though I haven’t been able to do full checks on its legitimacy (my tools are at home) I do think it is genuine. The place where I got this had multiple other coins that I am familiar with and that (looked) perfectly genuine so I’ll take the benefit of the doubt here.

if we assume that it’s indeed genuine, what would you think this should be valued at? From my quick checks, it’s quite rare (mintage of 15K and numista rarity index of 90), but some of the price indications put this in price ranges between 100-300€, which probably is too high.

i tried to take pictures in different lights but am limited with my cellphone for quality.

i appreciate all of your inputs. For transparancy, I ended up paying 40€ For this coin.

thank you all for taking the time

I have said this many times before: It would be sensible to upload photos which are correctly rotated to save everyone having to crane their necks to view them, or the alternative, nothing bothering.

You didn't mention the coin is Russian as you already know from Numista, it's not essential, but makes life easier. It a Russian coin specialist saw Russian in your title, they may have read your post and helped.

If is good that you stated you paid €40, but you didn't mention the name or location of the shop, all of which may have helped, and also might help future users.

For example, if you bought it from Duggan's Dodgy Deals in Downtown Derry, it might give us a clue, and also alert future buyers.

If it was from Knowledgeable Noonan's Numismatic Niceties of Newry, then we might have higher expectations.

Have you looked on AliExpress yet?

😎

Chards

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2 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

If genuine, this would be a big hit. But alas, I'd have some doubts about its authenticity. Photos are not great but I don't like some details, e.g. the statue on the top of the column - is there a gap? The fence - where are the bird decorations? Where's the signature on the obverse?

I am looking at this on my phone screen only so better check is advisable but I would be cautious. You can find several silver plated copies of this coin which tend to have similar issues on aliexpress.

Here is a link to at least one fake / imitation coin on AliExpress:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818665035.html

Although the photos are awful.

thee does seem to be edge damage on the OP's coins and on the AE version.

Note: the fake coins supplied on AliExpress are not stamped "COPY".

Viewing it on your phone, at least you can turn it round more easily than my 8K monitor, so the coin looks right way up!

😎

 

Chards

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7 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

For example, if you bought it from Duggan's Dodgy Deals in Downtown Derry, it might give us a clue, and also alert future buyers.

If it was from Knowledgeable Noonan's Numismatic Niceties of Newry, then we might have higher expectations.

Have you looked on AliExpress yet?

😎

He can’t be on holiday in Northern Ireland, he paid 40 Euros. 😆

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23 minutes ago, Foster88 said:

He can’t be on holiday in Northern Ireland, he paid 40 Euros. 😆

Isn't that an unofficial part of the EU now?

Euros are accepted in many places, including Blackpool (Lancashire or Cork).

It would have taken me longer to think up aliterations using the names of Eire towns, and the Northern Ireland ones had already volunteered for the job.

But as he is on holiday, it could be Bulgaria. I have a great uncle there.

😎

Chards

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1 hour ago, Arganto said:

Have you done any testing for size/weight etc?

I did not have the opportunity to do so at this stage, this was a purchase on the spot in the shop

 

39 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

If is good that you stated you paid €40, but you didn't mention the name or location of the shop, all of which may have helped, and also might help future users.

For example, if you bought it from Duggan's Dodgy Deals in Downtown Derry, it might give us a clue, and also alert future buyers.

28 minutes ago, Foster88 said:

He can’t be on holiday in Northern Ireland, he paid 40 Euros. 😆

The coin was bought at an antiquariat boutique in Romania, Brasov to be more precise. My romanian is very basic as was the shopkeepers English. Part of the adventure and taking a chance I guess. 
 

world silver coins are somewhat to me and admittedly I have 0 knowledge about Russian coinage, nor did I have the opportunity at the time to do proper research. I decided to chance it since, worst case scenario it’s be a 40€ lesson in being more pragmatic about my purchases
 

I appreciate all of your inputs. I will return to that shop today or tomorrow and try to explain to the shopkeeper in my best Romanian that I believe it to be a fake. I’ll update here once that visit is completed!

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9 minutes ago, Alex944 said:

The coin was bought at an antiquariat boutique in Romania, Brasov to be more precise. My romanian is very basic as was the shopkeepers English. Part of the adventure and taking a chance I guess. 

Did the shopkeeper have huge hands? Asking for a friend...

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7 minutes ago, Alex944 said:

I did not have the opportunity to do so at this stage, this was a purchase on the spot in the shop

 

The coin was bought at an antiquariat boutique in Romania, Brasov to be more precise. My romanian is very basic as was the shopkeepers English. Part of the adventure and taking a chance I guess. 
 

world silver coins are somewhat to me and admittedly I have 0 knowledge about Russian coinage, nor did I have the opportunity at the time to do proper research. I decided to chance it since, worst case scenario it’s be a 40€ lesson in being more pragmatic about my purchases
 

I appreciate all of your inputs. I will return to that shop today or tomorrow and try to explain to the shopkeeper in my best Romanian that I believe it to be a fake. I’ll update here once that visit is completed!

Romania has a long tradition for coin forgery:

https://blog.regton.com/2014/08/13/the-oldest-forged-coins-found-by-metal-detector-in-romania/

as does Bulgaria.

This does mean that your coin is more likely be a reasonable quality Romanian / Bulgarian fake rather than a cheap Chinese fake!

It would still be interesting to have the name of the "antiquariat boutique in Romania"

😎

Chards

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12 minutes ago, Alex944 said:

I appreciate all of your inputs. I will return to that shop today or tomorrow and try to explain to the shopkeeper in my best Romanian that I believe it to be a fake. I’ll update here once that visit is completed!

Try "este această monedă autentică?"

😎

Chards

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Just now, LawrenceChard said:

Quod erat demonstrandum?

😎

Alexa said "I'm sorry, I don't know that one"

Could be my French accent though ( a little game we play)

I like to buy the pre-dip dip

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13 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Try "este această monedă autentică?"

😎

or

non liberum vectigalia

Central bankers are politicians disguised as economists or bankers. They’re either incompetent or liars. So, either way, you’re never going to get a valid answer.” - Peter Schiff

Sound money is not a guarantee of a free society, but a free society is impossible without sound money. We are currently a society enslaved by debt.
 
If you are a new member and want to know why we stack PMs look at this link https://www.thesilverforum.com/topic/56131-videos-of-significance/#comment-381454
 
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Alright so here's the update:

Made it back to the shop and had the fortune of finding another person in there who spoke both English and Romanian. With this persons' help, explained to the shopkeeper that after further research (thanks forum) I suspected the coin to be a forgery. Shopkeeper was nice about it and offered to either give me the money back, or let me exchange it for something else in store. I ended up doing a combination of both (no further coins though).

I think it's also important to mention that this Antiquariat is not a specialized coinshop, rather it's an antique shop that has some coins, which is a great reminder for me to be more sceptical about purchases like these. 

 

3 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

It would still be interesting to have the name of the "antiquariat boutique in Romania"

😎

The shop window just says ''Antiquariat Boutique'', so I'm going with that's the name. To be more detailed, it is situated on Strada Diaconi Coresi, which is about a 5 mins walk from the Black Cathedral in Brasov's old centre.

 

 

3 hours ago, Darr3nG said:

Did the shopkeeper have huge hands? Asking for a friend...

I think this is a joke that went over my head, but I'll just state that it seemed like normal proportions for someone that size.

Thanks again to all of you for your thoughts and opinion, which has saved me from spending some good ol' fiat on a fake coin. I am confident the shopkeeper had no bad intentions considering his reaction and response. I am happy with the way things turned out and hopefully I actually gained some knowledge for future purchases in these type of situations 😎.

Again, much appreciated!

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1 hour ago, Alex944 said:

Alright so here's the update:

Made it back to the shop and had the fortune of finding another person in there who spoke both English and Romanian. With this persons' help, explained to the shopkeeper that after further research (thanks forum) I suspected the coin to be a forgery. Shopkeeper was nice about it and offered to either give me the money back, or let me exchange it for something else in store. I ended up doing a combination of both (no further coins though).

I think it's also important to mention that this Antiquariat is not a specialized coinshop, rather it's an antique shop that has some coins, which is a great reminder for me to be more sceptical about purchases like these. 
 

The shop window just says ''Antiquariat Boutique'', so I'm going with that's the name. To be more detailed, it is situated on Strada Diaconi Coresi, which is about a 5 mins walk from the Black Cathedral in Brasov's old centre.

I think this is a joke that went over my head, but I'll just state that it seemed like normal proportions for someone that size.

Thanks again to all of you for your thoughts and opinion, which has saved me from spending some good ol' fiat on a fake coin. I am confident the shopkeeper had no bad intentions considering his reaction and response. I am happy with the way things turned out and hopefully I actually gained some knowledge for future purchases in these type of situations 😎.

Again, much appreciated!

I'm glad to hear you got a good result!

I didn't get Darr3nG's "Did the shopkeeper have huge hands? Asking for a friend..." joke either, but don't tell him

😎

Chards

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