2022 Royal Mint & East India Co. Silver Proofs

[thegreywizard]

So I would like to get a few, high-end collectible mementos of the Queen now that she has passed.  Not for resale, just my private collection.

I am mainly interested in 2022 Royal Mint Silver Proofs as it has so much long and rich history.

Luckily I was still able to order a 2022 Britannia Silver Proof!

But I don't really see any other options, which is surprising.

Why isn't there a Coat of Arms Proof?

I found this Coat of Arms on Apmex and will probably pick it up, but it's only a BU, not a Proof.

https://www.apmex.com/product/259790/2022-gb-1-oz-silver-the-royal-arms-pcgs-gem-bu-memorial-label

I would love to get this one in a Proof, but this is probably the best version from the Royal Mint that will be available of the Royal Arms?

 

I also came across The East India Co. and they seem to have some really nice Proofs and a long history, but are they actually the Mint or just a reseller?

I'm highly considering added these two 2022 Queen 1oz Proofs:

https://collections.theeastindiacompany.com/products/2022-masterpiece-gothic-crown-1oz-silver-proof-coin?variant=42841299124457

https://collections.theeastindiacompany.com/products/2022-platinum-jubilee-1oz-silver-proof?variant=43110132285673

I love the design of the Gothic Crown and the Jubilee is also a great memento for the collection.

Are they held in high-regard like the Royal Mint is?  I wasn't familiar with them until yesterday when I was looking for 2022 Proofs of the Queen.

 

I also plan on getting a 2022 Canadian Maple Proof.  But those seem to be totally sold out now and ebay seems the only options?  Does anyone know of any coin shop that has one in stock?

Are there any other 2022 Proofs from other Mints I should consider?

 

As time goes on I would love to pick up the 2oz versions of the 1oz Proofs I want to get.  I'll see how my budget goes.  I wanted a center piece for the all and looks like I missed out on the 10oz Queen's Beast round, which would have been awesome to get!  I'm going to try and monitor the secondary market and see if I can pick one up without a high premium on it.  

What did this originally sell for?  Does anyone know of a coin shop with one in stock for a fair price?

I also see that there is a 10oz Royal Arms round that's for pre-order now.  Are we anticipating this selling out fast?  The price is pretty good right now and although it's not a center piece such as the 10oz Queen's Beasts, I think I'd like to pick this one up now too while the price is low to add to my collection.

https://www.royalmint.com/invest/bullion/bullion-coins/silver-coins/royal-arms-2020-10oz-silver-coin/

Edited September 25, 2022 by thegreywizard

[CheetahX]

you can still order 2022 1oz Canada Ultra High Relief Maple 9999 Silver Reverse Proof Coin and 2022 1oz Canada Super Incuse Maple Leaf .9999 Silver Reserve Proof Coin from LPM in Hong Kong

[thegreywizard]

Ok I think I found it on their website, they're like $155 right now?

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the two EIC silver Proofs I linked to, the Gothic Crown and the Jubilee coin.

I know these aren't Royal Mint, but it doesn't seem like there are any options by them that are available or reasonable affordable lol.  And these seem to be impressive Proofs for a reasonable price.  I got both shipped for $197.  (I know they won't ship for a couple of months though because the Jubilee was a pre-order)

I think the EIC has a lot of rich history that makes these 2 an interesting addition to my collection for The Queen's silver Proof memento.  If I can pick up any Royal Mint variations down the road for a reasonable price, I will probably pick those up too.  But I'm not holding my breath lol

But which Mint is actually striking these Gothic Crowns and their other offerings for EIC?

Even though they were given a Charter as a Mint, do they actually strike their own coins?

They do have the Royal Mint strike at least some of their designs I think don't they?

Edited September 26, 2022 by thegreywizard

[dikefalos]

The EIC Masterpiece collection is a great alternative to the RM Great Engravers series. I just don't like the 3G release of the EIC, really flat relief and the graces are looking somehow strange. The Una Lion restrike by the EIC is stunning and I didn't regret the purchase at all.  I received my EIC St. Helena portrait and it looks not bad. RM original restrike (Mr. @LawrenceChard, i'm learning) does have a higher relief and sharper details. The EIC coins still are looking good, no quality issues and have a bigger diameter. But if I had to choose my personal favorite of all UK Gothic Crown restrikes, I would take the Commonwealth Mint issues without second thinking. The QEII young portrait alone makes this one outstanding IMO. 

[thegreywizard]

Wow, great collection!

Glad to hear that EIC is a worthwhile contender.

If I can ever pick up a Royal Mint down the line, I probably will just because, RM.  But I know the price is gonna hurt if and when I ever do.

What is the bottom coin in the Gothic Crown series that is mirror polished?  Is that the RM version?

I was shooting for all 2022 offerings because of her death, but wow does that bottom coin pop with that mirror polish!

Didn't the RM only offer the Gothic Crown in 2oz?  That looks like a 1oz to me so I'm confused.

I was hoping the EIC Proof was going to be similar and shiny, which it seems it's not from your pictures.  But if I go to EIC website, it looks like their is mirror polished like your bottom 2021 version is?  So I'm confused as to which EIC/St. Helena version you have compared to what's on their website.

Ugh, being late to the game sucks lol  

Edited September 27, 2022 by thegreywizard

[dikefalos]

Bottom down is the RM version, 2 OZ. The graded ones are the Alderney version, crown size. On top are the 2 OZ EIC coins. Got no Alderney proofs, so I can't say nothing about the proof finish, but saw some nice pictures on the board here. 

The EIC Gothics are not bad, but RM finish looks way better. I was lucky, that the RM offered me a Gothic Arms too, the day they restocked the portrait. months after the release.

[thegreywizard]

Ah ok gotcha.

Has there been any rumors of the Royal Mint offering the Gothic Crown Proofs in any other sizes?

I would assume there won't be any new RM offerings of Gothic Crown Proofs or any other new coins at this point late in the year, so no 2022 marking to commemorate her death on a Gothic Crown from RM it seems.

However, if they offer a 1oz, 5oz or 10oz in the Gothic Crown Proof at any point in the future, I will probably pick them up just because of how amazing of an engraving that the GC is.  

I would assume they would want to milk the collectors for this great design lol

Does the EIC look as shiny in person as it does on their website:

https://collections.theeastindiacompany.com/products/2022-masterpiece-gothic-crown-1oz-silver-proof-coin?variant=42841299124457

Any clue on who is actually striking the Proofs for EIC?

What is "Crown size" compared to a normal 1 Troy ounce coin?

I'm not familiar with Alderney, I'll have to look them up.

Edited September 27, 2022 by thegreywizard

[foinikas]

On 27/09/2022 at 14:47, dikefalos said:

The EIC Masterpiece collection is a great alternative to the RM Great Engravers series. I just don't like the 3G release of the EIC, really flat relief and the graces are looking somehow strange. The Una Lion restrike by the EIC is stunning and I didn't regret the purchase at all.  I received my EIC St. Helena portrait and it looks not bad. RM original restrike (Mr. @LawrenceChard, i'm learning) does have a higher relief and sharper details. The EIC coins still are looking good, no quality issues and have a bigger diameter. But if I had to choose my personal favorite of all UK Gothic Crown restrikes, I would take the Commonwealth Mint issues without second thinking. The QEII young portrait alone makes this one outstanding IMO. 

I wouldnt buy anything else tha  Royal Mint on british coins. Unfortunately coins from the other mints dont usually hold on their values and most of the times you will lose money when you sell.

[dikefalos]

2 hours ago, foinikas said:

I wouldnt buy anything else tha  Royal Mint on british coins. Unfortunately coins from the other mints dont usually hold on their values and most of the times you will lose money when you sell.

You are totally right with the resale value. But the major problem with the resale value of coins i bought for my collection is, i don't care. I really don't care about it. I only would sell them, if they start boring me. And than i care even less about it. I just buy to enjoy them and would never spend money, that me, or my family, could need otherwise. It's just my hobby. 

[dikefalos]

On 27/09/2022 at 18:07, thegreywizard said:

Ah ok gotcha.

Has there been any rumors of the Royal Mint offering the Gothic Crown Proofs in any other sizes?

I would assume there won't be any new RM offerings of Gothic Crown Proofs or any other new coins at this point late in the year, so no 2022 marking to commemorate her death on a Gothic Crown from RM it seems.

However, if they offer a 1oz, 5oz or 10oz in the Gothic Crown Proof at any point in the future, I will probably pick them up just because of how amazing of an engraving that the GC is.  

I would assume they would want to milk the collectors for this great design lol

Does the EIC look as shiny in person as it does on their website:

https://collections.theeastindiacompany.com/products/2022-masterpiece-gothic-crown-1oz-silver-proof-coin?variant=42841299124457

Any clue on who is actually striking the Proofs for EIC?

What is "Crown size" compared to a normal 1 Troy ounce coin?

I'm not familiar with Alderney, I'll have to look them up.

-No rumors, they released 2OZ, 5OZ, 10OZ, 1 Kilo and 2 Kilo silver proofs. Dunno about the gold coins, watching them makes me cry about my poverty. Guess the same sizes plus one 6,8, or 10 kilo gold coin.

-No more Gothik Crown releases so far, those two coins are part of a series by The RM called "Great Engravers". I would love GE bullion coins, but the mint didn't asked me.

-You have to buy one on the secondary market. As you are UK based, this forum might be a fine place to get them. 

-They allready did, they released two coins, instead of one and raised the mintages. People went mad and bought dozens. I saw here multiple towers of GC boxes.

-Now you ask, they look pretty silverish proof

-No clue, but I guess the RM. 

-28.28gr of .925 silver

-https://ukgoldcoins.co.uk/product/new-gothic-crown-silver-proof/

 

 

 

[Silverlocks]

On 27/09/2022 at 17:07, thegreywizard said:

Ah ok gotcha.

Has there been any rumors of the Royal Mint offering the Gothic Crown Proofs in any other sizes?

I would assume there won't be any new RM offerings of Gothic Crown Proofs or any other new coins at this point late in the year, so no 2022 marking to commemorate her death on a Gothic Crown from RM it seems.

However, if they offer a 1oz, 5oz or 10oz in the Gothic Crown Proof at any point in the future, I will probably pick them up just because of how amazing of an engraving that the GC is.  

I would assume they would want to milk the collectors for this great design lol

Does the EIC look as shiny in person as it does on their website:

https://collections.theeastindiacompany.com/products/2022-masterpiece-gothic-crown-1oz-silver-proof-coin?variant=42841299124457

Any clue on who is actually striking the Proofs for EIC?

What is "Crown size" compared to a normal 1 Troy ounce coin?

I'm not familiar with Alderney, I'll have to look them up.

I've seen some EIC stuff on the interwebs and they claim to be the East India Company with a licence to mint coins for St. Helena.  Except, the East India Company was dissolved in 1874.

East India Company - Wikipedia

It's not clear from the web site, nor any collateral available off the interwebs, exactly what relationship the entity calling itself the East India Company is to the actual East India Company.  Their claim to have the legal right to mint coinage for St. Helena is quite a bold claim unless there's some shenanigans going on behind the scenes or they've somehow got hold of the legal entity of the EIC itself.

[thegreywizard]

I realize the Royal Mint is the best to get coins from.

I am a collector more than anything.  So as I do want my collection to hold/retain it's value, I do collect for my own personal enjoyment more than anything.  I would hope my collection would increase over time and not decrease.

But when I buy one of something, it's for a guilty pleasure as a collector.  I love generic for stacking.

I would love to know who is really striking these coins for the EIC.  That link to the Commonwealth Mint double coin set mentions that they actually strike their own coins.  But no where did I see on EIC's website of them mentioning they strike the coins.

So would the only Mint that would strike coins for a Charter like the EIC has, be the Royal Mint?

I'm really surprised someone who knows hasn't chimed in yet.  I'd imagine there has to be people here that know the real behind the scenes details of who is striking coins for EIC.

The EIC history is interesting and you do bring up a very important question @silverlocks

But, however the EIC shookout, it seems it still retains a legitimate Charter as a Mint for for exclusive coins with the Queens effigy on the back.  

They might not be the RM, but their designs are beautiful and I hope to enjoy them in my collection for years to come.

I ended up buying the 1oz Gothic Crown/Shield and the 1oz Platinum Jubilee.  They were actually both just shipped out today!  If i love the 1oz Gothic Crown/Shield & the 2oz Crowns are still in stock, I may pick one up to add to the collection because the level of detail in them looks amazing!

I also just bought an EIC 1oz Queens Virtues Victory with the art-deco background.  I think this is one of the most beautiful coins out there!  They just released a 5oz version of these Queens Virtues and if I love the 1oz in person as much as I think I will, I'm going to order the 2022 5oz version very soon too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284739848799?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3De29378a568af4fc1b057a23c66d88661%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D295118148180%26itm%3D284739848799%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DBritish+Royal+Mint&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa8ca8bc4-4359-11ed-a6bb-827bfc49cb7f|parentrq%3A9f874d661830a64d71f82a9afff7c6ba|iid%3A1

All in all, I'll get what I can from the RM without having to sell organs lol and round out a few from EIC and have a beautiful collection I can enjoy looking at.

Edited October 3, 2022 by thegreywizard

[Cogload]

On 03/10/2022 at 13:42, Silverlocks said:

I've seen some EIC stuff on the interwebs and they claim to be the East India Company with a licence to mint coins for St. Helena.  Except, the East India Company was dissolved in 1874.

East India Company - Wikipedia

It's not clear from the web site, nor any collateral available off the interwebs, exactly what relationship the entity calling itself the East India Company is to the actual East India Company.  Their claim to have the legal right to mint coinage for St. Helena is quite a bold claim unless there's some shenanigans going on behind the scenes or they've somehow got hold of the legal entity of the EIC itself.

 

Very little it seems. The new East India company basically blagged the name if we believe Wikipedia: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjiv_Mehta_(British_businessman)

 

[StackemHigh]

On 25/09/2022 at 19:57, thegreywizard said:

Are they held in high-regard like the Royal Mint is?  

The royal mint held in high-regard ? Eh! where did you hear that? Here in the UK where the royal mint is our national mint the significant problems experienced with the often poor design,  damaged goods, lack of quality control, poor packaging n presentation cases, long delivery times and shockingly poor customer service doesn't  bode well for customers of the royal mint. Far better quality and design can be had from the Perth Mint, Royal Australian mint, Pobjoy Mint or Canadian Mint. If I'm correct some mints have 2023 coins being released this year with the queen on them too!

[thegreywizard]

@cogland great info and point!

So it seems it is just a new-age recreation that was able to secure the Charter, Coat of Arms & Merchant Mark according to wiki.

Adds to an interesting history that's for sure.

They do offer beautiful coins regardless.  

Since they are clearly not a true Mint, striking their own coins, I would think that it has to be the Royal Mint that is striking these identical Gothic Arms series.  Surely the RM is the only one that holds the Right and Dies of these engravings.

When it comes to the RM and their QC, I have seen a lot of complaints and it seems it's nothing new.  Sad that such a prestigious establishment that the Royal Mint is, has let their quality slip the way they have.

Regardless, the Royal Mint has 1100 year old history, and that is both amazing and fascinating!  I don't have any coins from the RM, and it was the Queen's death that even made me aware of the RM.  

I've collected coins my whole life and hoping to get into it more serious with a focus on Proofs.  

I ordered and am waiting on a 2022 Britannia Proof, & I'm personally happy to soon have a RM Proof in my collection. 

[paulmerton]

EIC coins are actually struck at the Royal Mint as far as I could tell when I last researched this.

[thegreywizard]

That is great news to hear!

My EIC coins did ship from London, so I'd imagine the closest Mint is also the RM.  Let alone them holding the Rights/Dies for the Gothic Crown engravings

It would only make sense.

Is there a way to actually prove it?  Would the RM or EIC be public about this type of relationship?

Edited October 6, 2022 by thegreywizard

[paulmerton]

11 minutes ago, thegreywizard said:

That is great news to hear!

My EIC coins did ship from London, so I'd imagine the closest Mint is also the RM.  Let alone them holding the Rights/Dies for the Gothic Crown engravings

It would only make sense.

Is there a way to actually prove it?  Would the RM or EIC be public about this type of relationship?

They did have something on their old website that said their sovereigns were minted at the royal mint, but that page has since gone in the recent restructuring of their website.

[StackemHigh]

On 03/10/2022 at 21:27, thegreywizard said:

I realize the Royal Mint is the best to get coins from.

I am a collector more than anything.  So as I do want my collection to hold/retain it's value, I do collect for my own personal enjoyment more than anything.  I would hope my collection would increase over time and not decrease.

But when I buy one of something, it's for a guilty pleasure as a collector.  I love generic for stacking.

I would love to know who is really striking these coins for the EIC.  That link to the Commonwealth Mint double coin set mentions that they actually strike their own coins.  But no where did I see on EIC's website of them mentioning they strike the coins.

So would the only Mint that would strike coins for a Charter like the EIC has, be the Royal Mint?

I'm really surprised someone who knows hasn't chimed in yet.  I'd imagine there has to be people here that know the real behind the scenes details of who is striking coins for EIC.

The EIC history is interesting and you do bring up a very important question @silverlocks

But, however the EIC shookout, it seems it still retains a legitimate Charter as a Mint for for exclusive coins with the Queens effigy on the back.  

They might not be the RM, but their designs are beautiful and I hope to enjoy them in my collection for years to come.

I ended up buying the 1oz Gothic Crown/Shield and the 1oz Platinum Jubilee.  They were actually both just shipped out today!  If i love the 1oz Gothic Crown/Shield & the 2oz Crowns are still in stock, I may pick one up to add to the collection because the level of detail in them looks amazing!

I also just bought an EIC 1oz Queens Virtues Victory with the art-deco background.  I think this is one of the most beautiful coins out there!  They just released a 5oz version of these Queens Virtues and if I love the 1oz in person as much as I think I will, I'm going to order the 2022 5oz version very soon too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284739848799?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3De29378a568af4fc1b057a23c66d88661%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D295118148180%26itm%3D284739848799%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DBritish+Royal+Mint&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa8ca8bc4-4359-11ed-a6bb-827bfc49cb7f|parentrq%3A9f874d661830a64d71f82a9afff7c6ba|iid%3A1

All in all, I'll get what I can from the RM without having to sell organs lol and round out a few from EIC and have a beautiful collection I can enjoy looking at.

Most mint will privately mint coins there are many european mints that do exactly this. I would assume the mint would have an agreement with a small commonwealth state to produce what they like and pay a licence fee to that country.

[StackemHigh]

On 03/10/2022 at 21:27, thegreywizard said:

I realize the Royal Mint is the best to get coins from.

The idea that the royal mint (rm) is best is a flawed one. I for no would NEVER EVER buy directly from them. When i do buy one of their products it is always from a 3rd party that has some honesty and a functioning quality control dept (Not Aunt Betty that is more worried about dropping a stitch on her knitting cause she forgot her glasses that day).

There are plenty of bullion and coin dealers out there that have competitive prices for rm stuff and after a few months the premium is often lost and can be had at a good price! 

[thegreywizard]

So I received most of the coins I ordered of the Queen.  I'm only still waiting on the 2022 Britannia Proof from the Royal Mint, but that's going to be a little bit yet.

I wish I didn't miss out on the double Proof/Reverse Proof set.  I really like this set.  I may bite the bullet and try and pick a set up for a reasonable premium.  If anyone has a nice set to sell, please PM me.

I'd have to say, the coins from the EIC are really spectacular.  I can't seem to find a single blemish of any kind any where on both coins.  Really exceptional quality proofs without a doubt.  I'm going to pick up the 2oz Gothic Crown and I'm on the waiting list to be notified of the 5oz. This is just an amazing engraving (not that I need to tell anyone here that lol)

I wish I could have picked up an official Royal Mint Gothic Crown, and later on down the road if I have some extra loose cash, I may pick one up as a grail piece.  

But for $100, this one from the EIC is amazing (sorry for the kind of crappy pics):

 

Then here is the 70th Jubilee coin, also very nice:

 

 

 

 

[thegreywizard]

Then I bought the 1oz St. Helena/EIC Victory Coin, this is an absolutely amazing and beautiful coin in person.  It's not a Proof, but I love the design.  The edges seem a bit beatup to me though, I guess it is what it is:

 

And finally I got a 1oz Royal Arms off ebay and it's not the greatest condition sadly.  Pitting on the Queens neck and a huge gouge on the unicorn.  It's a beautiful design overall, but I'm considering sending it back since I paid $50 for it.

[Solachesis]

On 06/10/2022 at 10:12, Cogload said:

 

Very little it seems. The new East India company basically blagged the name if we believe Wikipedia: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjiv_Mehta_(British_businessman)

 

I had a pretty bad taste in my mouth hearing that some businessman had "revived" the east India company name to profit off of what was essentially the world's first mega-corporation, which plundered India and illegally smuggled opium into China.

Then I read the businessman is Indian, and felt there was a satisfying irony that it's an Indian raking in money on a brand which exploited India, fair play to him